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Old May 20th, 2011, 01:50 AM
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Dyepaintball12 Dyepaintball12 is offline
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Default Indian Reservations

I was having a conversation with some guys this weekend so I just want to clear this up:

On an Indian Reservation, the casino CAN refuse to cash out your chips, right?

How far can they go? Take your chips from you at your table? Go into your room and take the cash they say "you stole from them?"

- Dye
Old May 20th, 2011, 02:24 AM
WRX WRX is offline
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I'm half amused and half exasperated when someone asks, "What is the law about such and such in Location X?" when the true situation is that THE LAW DOESN'T MATTER. And that's the situation when you're playing in Indian territory. In theory, there will be tribal law and law of the state where the casino is located that will all sound very standard and reasonable. The problem is, will you have any court or other forum available that will actually protect your rights? There have been reported cases of security guards at Indian casinos forcibly stealing APs' entire bankrolls, and telling them to get lost, and they realized there wasn't a thing they could do about it.

It's somewhat like asking what's the law on being able to keep your winnings in a Russian casino, when what you should really be worrying about is the Russian Mafia.

Your best protection is that Indian casinos usually won't want the bad publicity that comes from blatantly cheating or stealing. Much as online casinos and poker rooms have usually wanted to maintain reputations for honesty, despite the lack of any effective way to take legal action against them if they aren't honest. (However, that incentive may have been greatly watered down, given the likelihood that there's no future for them in the U.S. market, in the face of the recent prosecutions.)

Last edited by WRX; May 20th, 2011 at 02:41 AM.
Old May 20th, 2011, 02:28 AM
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Severity8 Severity8 is offline
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From my understanding no casino has to cash out your chips I was reading a book by a guy saying that an AP'er was stashing their chips in a locker on the property (kinda like lockers at an air port) so before they cashed out they let the guy hit them again let him stash his chips and leave property and then just went and cracked the lock and got their chips. And then got him on his next trip in, and that was in Vegas if I remember right. Granted it might have been in the 80's or 90's but..... as far as native casino's go they are on sovereign land which is in the realm of federal gov. only not state, county or city and they don't really mess with them at all they let their own tribal police deal with them. I was advised that if things go south in the casino/s I play in to hit the door and quick (Oklahoma only has native casinos), not that anything would happen per se' but that I would have a lot harder time dealing with it in court. As far as the chips I thought they were looked at as IOU's and were considered casino property. I know I'm wrong on several things so experienced gents' feel free to berate me!

Old May 20th, 2011, 07:17 AM
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Indian casinos are, at least technically, on Indian Reservations.
They are "sovereign states" and are NOT compelled to conform
to State ~ or ~ Federal laws.

I personally KNOW (as unmitigated fact) of a Card Counter who
was severely beaten at Foxwoods, about a decade ago. The irony
was that his brother who is an attorney in Hartford, had the task
of visiting him in the I.C.U., (where he was recovering from internal
injuries and multiple fractures), that he had NO legal recourse.

Some Indian casinos in California, have been caught "red-handed"
[no pun intended] cheating the public - without consequence.
The most amazing of which was one tribe that admitted to using
MARKED CARDS, but refused a California attorney a refund
of the $74,000 that he had lost.

Last year I was detained for hours by casino security staff, with the
assistance of a State Police detective. Yes, Indian Tribes always
have the option of using OUR courts, police, etc. - at THEIR discretion.

"Abandon hope all ye who enter here."
Old May 20th, 2011, 08:39 AM
tthree tthree is offline
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Default Affects of lawlessness

In a lawless society these types of things will be dealt with in a lawless way if they try it on the wrong person. I suspect they have run into this sort of limitation on their absolute authority before and have a plan to deal with it.

I figure either you end up a "green spot" somewhere or you will be treated with respect if you can sell that they are in that situation when you are being shafted. I am sure there are people who quietly take their lumps and create a number of "green spots" of their own some time after the event.

The circle of life shows that new life thrives on the death of others.
Old May 20th, 2011, 09:21 AM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Default Dye

Originally Posted by Dyepaintball12 View Post
I was having a conversation with some guys this weekend so I just want to clear this up:

On an Indian Reservation, the casino CAN refuse to cash out your chips, right?

How far can they go? Take your chips from you at your table? Go into your room and take the cash they say "you stole from them?"

- Dye
At a casino we both know well a very close friend, some 14 years ago, was refused cashing his chips, $3,700, and was trespassed because he refused to be back roomed and they did this because he "wanted to be a smart ass". The guy was a CPA and the casino had a portfolio on him from another casino that he had taken for $66,000 in a month STing. I went back and cashed his chips over a 2 month time.

The other instances I know for fact involved fake ID's or the refusal to show ID, also in one instance the car was confiscated.

Just always cash those chips,,I know you have many!

But ya, they can do what they want, but you can appeal to the feds,,but not if you are caught with fake ID. In some places with the Tribal jail nearby, dig,,you could end up there for a 24 hour period.

Old May 20th, 2011, 11:55 AM
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Default Indian Casino

I visited an Indian casino with some family in Oklahoma a couple years ago, We were playing and my son who was seventeen at the time had gotten carded and was asked to leave. This is understandable (I had sneaked him into casino's before, many times in fact) anyway he went outside of the building and had a seat on a bench, waiting for us. Security then came up to him outside and told him he would have to leave the property (including the parking lot) in 2 minutes or he would be arrested for tresspass by tribal police. His phone was dead so he requested to go in the casino to tell me what was going on, security refused and said that was his problem. Meanwhile we are all inside totally unaware of what was going on.

My son started walking through the parking lot towards the car exit when tribal police pulled up, Hancuffed him and took him into custody...About 45 minutes later we decided to find him and leave but we couldnt locate him.We contacted security and this pompus 20 something told me what had happened and that tribal police had him...

I was absolutely pissed, I chewed him and three other people out before going to the tribal jail where I had to pay a $250 tresspassing fine before they would release him. it took two hours in a jail the size of my garage!!

Needless to say, I don't play there and am glad it's not one of my favorites.

Old May 20th, 2011, 12:36 PM
21forme 21forme is offline
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Originally Posted by exgriffinman View Post
Needless to say, I don't play there and am glad it's not one of my favorites.

If that happened to me, I WOULD go back and beat the crap out of their games!
Old May 20th, 2011, 01:15 PM
paddywhack paddywhack is offline
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Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
If that happened to me, I WOULD go back and beat the crap out of their games!
Old May 20th, 2011, 01:33 PM
Midwestern Midwestern is offline
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Scary to think that we have no recourse at all against an Indian tribe. That said, ive encountered nothing but friendliness at Indian casinos before... They DO have a reputation to keep up after all.

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