Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #11  
Old June 29th, 2011, 01:56 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Originally Posted by Partyscammers View Post
Hello everyone,

I just wanted to warn you all about PartyCasino Live BlackJack. About 4 days ago I decided to give it a try and ran into problems almost right away. My actions were not registering with the dealer after pressing the appropriate button. Also there were a few occasion where they would have to stop the game for up to 5 mins cause they were having connection problems. Not just with me but the whole table/site.

After pressing the button the options would go away like the action registered but the Hit/Stand/Split/Double action never showed up on the table. I would type to the dealer what button I pressed before my time expired. Then she would ding a bell on the table and raise her hand for support.

Support would come and ask me for the hand and they would proceed to give me a reference number. They also said I would be contacted via email by support.

Days went by and still no email so I decided to write them and ask whats taking so long. This is what they say:

Thank you for contacting Customer Service.

I am sorry to see that there were a few causes for disappointment and I hope that we will be able to answer your concerns as fully as possible.

I would like to confirm that the Live Dealer games represent a special mixture of technologies which makes it a bit more difficult for us to check the game logs. This is standard procedure when it comes to any complaints or disputes with the Live dealer games. So, any check takes slightly longer to perform and come back with a result, but this also ensures a correct reply.

Now, when our special games team has checked the given reference numbers: CI-8002, CI-8003 and CI-8005 they have confirmed that you have indeed clicked on HIT/SPLIT/HIT (for the three games respectively) but the decision was not accepted, since it reached our game servers too late, when the time given for a decision was already over. This may have happened due to slow Internet connection or general Internet delays. We however can confirm that we did not experience an issue on our end on that date and time.

Internet connection is established via the help of many servers. A disconnection/slow connectivity may be caused by one of those additional servers. Internet Delays or Internet Disconnections can be caused by a number of reasons, some of which can be influenced by us or yourself. For instance, the increasing number of Internet gateways(servers) that fall between our site and your system contribute towards poor connectivity to our games.

On our web site it is stated that "If you get disconnected in the middle of a game of blackjack your hand will automatically stand." I am sorry to confirm that according to our game rules and the mechanics of our software, the stand decision which was automatically taken due to the disconnection was practical and fair in the given circumstances. We would have no reason to refund the bets placed as in the occasion that the dealer would have busted, you would have received winnings for your bets.

We are sorry once again that we cannot assist you further with your refund request, but we do hope on your understanding that in that particular situation we are only applying the standard game rules where there is a confirmed disconnection outside our servers. Disconnections can and do happen, so you may happen to encounter others complaining of the same delay issues, but I can assure you that we have not caused such from our end and we will always refund accordingly when we have caused any such inconvenience.


I would like to add in closing that there was another person at the table that was having the same problem. I would also like to point out that I have a 45mbps hard line connection that virtually never goes down/slows.

I'm also looking into the possibility of starting a class action lawsuit against PartyGaming. If you or anyone you know has been wronged under similar circumstances please post a brief description here.
If i were you i'd try getting a mediator involved. The fact that the server was registering you chat conversation easily within the time frame, but not your play decisions shows that it wasn't a problem at your end. They also flapped on about players getting disconnected, but you weren't disconnected so that's fairly irrelevant.

You could try either http://www.casinomeister.com or http://www.gamblinggrumbles.com. I'd personally recommend Gambling Grumbles. I think Steve's a stand up guy with a great deal of integrity where CasinoMeister's a bit of a hack.

RJT.
  #12  
Old June 29th, 2011, 02:08 AM
RJT RJT is offline
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Originally Posted by pit15 View Post

This was back when they offered a blackjack game that gave you 75% of your bet back when you surrendered (long story short, if you clicked the surrender button twice you got 75% back instead of 50%). Apparently playing the game the way they offered it wasn't kosher so they locked all my accounts and refused to pay after they figured out why they were losing so much $.
In this situation i think it unlikely that they stole anything. Today at least, almost every online casino has a clause in their terms and conditions basically saying that if you're found exploiting a bug in the software they don't have to pay out. This protects them against programming errors. In this case, you were clearly exploiting a bug, so it goes without say (assuming that party had such a term listed at that time) that's you'd breached the term and weren't actually due anything.

It's a very different thing when a casino withholds funds citing their bonus abuse term as more often than not the term is very vague and fails to explain exactly how the customer would be in violation of it, or their bot use term as it's almost impossible for them to actually 'prove' that a bot was used. In this case, as it wasn't a special version of blackjack where you're allowed to surrender twice, it was clearly a bug.

Don't get me wrong in all of this - the way this issue should have been resolved is that the payments made should have been allow and all remaining balances should have been reset to pre-wagering levels and allowed to withdraw. Although so many related accounts does lead to suspicion of multi-accounting and that may have muddied the water.

RJT.

Last edited by RJT; June 29th, 2011 at 06:17 AM.
  #13  
Old June 29th, 2011, 03:51 AM
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zengrifter zengrifter is offline
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Having games programmed that even just 2x per hour if you are subject to a
forced stand on any number of hands, it probably creates a sizeable extra EV.

So it very well could be a scam. Maybe others are talking about it at CasinoMeister? zg
  #14  
Old June 29th, 2011, 05:46 AM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
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They could easily play the hand to the end according to basic strategy.
Further, you cannot make your decision "out of turn", which makes no sense ether.
  #15  
Old June 29th, 2011, 12:08 PM
pit15 pit15 is offline
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Of course, they have a T&C that basically lets them do whatever they want.

Doesn't mean that's fair.

If a real casino has a wrong layout or something, they still owe players the money they won on that layout up until they close the game. Even if they notice it midhand they still have to pay for that hand even if it's wrong.

Same with dealer mispays. You don't have to give anything back (though they can trespass you from coming back in the future).
  #16  
Old July 1st, 2011, 11:11 PM
pit15 pit15 is offline
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Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
In most casino venues if you discover a technical glitch that favors player and you purposely exploit it aggressively - you are cheating and may be prosecuted.

So, how long had you and "your friends" been cheats, and how often do you still cheat? zg
Well they sure as hell didn't act like I cheated or that I was in the wrong in any way.

They acted guilty as hell. They kept avoiding me for months, and finally got to talk to someone from higher up. I even asked him "are you accusing me of cheating" and he gave some really evasive answer and changed the subject. At the end I never actually got a valid reason from them as to why they wouldn't pay. They dodged the subject and just said they're not unfreezing my account and that's final.

He fed me crap about how surrendering that often in blackjack is suicide and told me to look at wizardofodds.com for the basic strategy and how I played wasn't right and I shouldn't have won playing that strategy (duh.. but the strategy changes if surrender is 75%).

Nothing was straight up about any of this. The only reason they finally had management call me is because I set up a bot to spam their live support chat with thousands of messages a day demanding my money and had this running for about a month straight (and I had it set up in a way to make sure they were actually spending time to respond to the messages instead of just ignoring them, guess they never heard of blocking an IP address), and I also sent a bunch of porno to their support email (these were my college days.. when I was 19 that seemed like a good idea) along with messages demanding my money.
  #17  
Old July 1st, 2011, 11:17 PM
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zengrifter zengrifter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pit15 View Post
Well they sure as hell didn't act like I cheated or that I was in the wrong in any way.

He fed me crap about how surrendering that often in blackjack is suicide and told me to look at wizardofodds.com for the basic strategy and how I played wasn't right and I shouldn't have won playing that strategy
Beautiful!! Next time try to make a graceful exit sooner!! zg
  #18  
Old July 1st, 2011, 11:31 PM
pit15 pit15 is offline
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Originally Posted by zengrifter View Post
Beautiful!! Next time try to make a graceful exit sooner!! zg
Well legal trouble was actually something we considered once we got the ball rolling on this thing. I figured they have as much recourse to try to get me for something as I do for them not paying me -- none. Especially considering that even in 2005 an online casino was illegal in the US. It's just that nobody was doing anything about it at the time. "Some kid screwed our online casino" isn't going to hold up. Hell, the online casino executives were scared to even enter US soil, one of them got arrested while in the US or something like that.

So I figured the most +EV thing to do is bang them as hard as we could until they decide to stop paying. Those 3 months of my life revolved around opening online casino accounts, playing blackjack with a ridiculous advantage, faxing documents (you had to in order to cash out > 2K from an account), requesting cashouts, and constantly checking accounts to see when the money arrives.

Most people involved were skeptical at first but bought into it because I had people backing me up. My sales pitch was basically "Let me open an online casino account and a neteller account under your name and you'll get thousands of dollars directly into your bank account within a week!"
  #19  
Old July 2nd, 2011, 01:56 AM
MangoJ MangoJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pit15 View Post
but the strategy changes if surrender is 75%
So you were actually too greedy, you could have just played basic strategy for cover.
If you surrender all hands below -0.25 EV, this is ASKING for a review of your play.
  #20  
Old July 2nd, 2011, 07:55 AM
tthree tthree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pit15 View Post
He fed me crap about how surrendering that often in blackjack is suicide and told me to look at wizardofodds.com for the basic strategy and how I played wasn't right and I shouldn't have won playing that strategy (duh.. but the strategy changes if surrender is 75%).
It sounds like he new their contract stipulation about not being paid if you exploit a programming glitch. By the correlation to play that deviates from BS exactly until the advantage afforded by the glitch is used up you gave them the exact evidence to legally not pay you. You might even find yourself having to pay back your "winnings" had you ever ended up in court. You were smart not to pursue it legally. This reminds me of people who spread so much they jeopardize the playable games in blackjack. The worst part is many are playing HILO which really cuts down on how many playable games are out there for them. They have a cash cow that they butcher for a fat meal. Next they will eat the goose that is laying golden eggs. I guess we all did foolish things when we were young.
 

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