Are There Any "Ghosts" Out There?

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by Richard Munchkin

I think a whole book could be written about what people have done to get a civilian out of a seat.

I've discreetly bought them for a small amount.
Max Rubin, eulogizing D.V. Cellini, tells of meeting him at a flashing dealer's table,
Max already in the money spot first, so Cellini proceeded to vomit on him.
It worked, Max moved. zg

[Gamblor]

Originally Posted by pit15

I've stood and stared at ploppies for hours. Sometimes it works and makes them uncomfortable enough to leave, a lot of times it doesn't. If it's clear you're making someone uncomfortable, start standing closer to them.

One time, there was this b*tch of a ploppy, I tried to buy in, but she would spread to two if I tried. She was already going at it with another player at the table, and they were rooting openly for each other to lose. I started joining in and teaming up with the other guy and rooting for her to lose, giving him hi fives when she lost a land, criticizing her play, etc., She left after 10 minutes.

[Richard Munchkin]

During the SARS scare I kept coughing at the table and mentioned that I had just returned from Hong Kong. They cleared out within minutes.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by Richard Munchkin

Well, there have been cases that went to the Supreme Court where they ruled that hole carding is legal.

"Multiple" cases went to the NV Supreme Court? That would make HC etched in stone, I would think...
But here is an example of casino lawyers STILL making an argument that "intentional" HC is still illegal cheating --

Cabot & Hannum Legal Review on Advantage Casino Play

[Southpaw]

Just in case anyone was curious, I returned to this casino and actually found another dealer that was near 100%. Of the two hours I was able to get in against this dealer, I only missed the read twice and relied on the BS for the game in these two cases. During the same evening, I found two other dealers that were about 50%, although someone more experienced would have probably been able to get a better read. (I did not play seriously against these two dealers, only playing them when needed to lock up a seat when the "lucky dealer" was about to return. Play against these dealers was for the minimum bet and included many bathroom / meal breaks).

So, at this store, I now have 2 dealers that are virtually 100% and 2 that are 50%ish that may become better as my eyes get better.

Spaw

[creeping panther]

PM me if you are interested in an opportunity

CP

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

"Multiple" cases went to the NV Supreme Court? That would make HC etched in stone, I would think...
But here is an example of casino lawyers STILL making an argument that "intentional" HC is still illegal cheating --

Cabot & Hannum Legal Review on Advantage Casino Play

Of course that's what casino lawyers were doing back in the 70s (against us salamanders). zg

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

But here is an example of casino lawyers STILL making an argument that "intentional" HC is still illegal cheating --

Courts are like the internet - the facts can be crystal clear but people will still argue.

-Sonny-

[Sucker]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

"Multiple" cases went to the NV Supreme Court? That would make HC etched in stone, I would think...

As far as I know, only one HC case went to the NV Supreme Court; the Einbinder-Dalben decision of 1983. The Supreme Court CLEARLY ruled that intentional holecarding is legal, as long as the HC'er uses no device, as long as he's legally seated at the table, and as long as the information is available to anyone at the table. This landmark case did NOT address one way or another, whether or not 'spooking' is legal.

As to the issue of actually being arrested for spooking - VERY doubtful. No one actually gets arrested for this. All they ever do is 86 you. To go into court and try to PROVE that someone is spooking is just WAY too difficult, short of an outright confession. And even THEN, they would first have to establish whether or not spooking IS cheating. But this is why spooking is still in the gray area of the law - no one has ever been charged with it yet.

[johndoe]

Originally Posted by Sucker

As far as I know, only one HC case went to the NV Supreme Court; the Einbinder-Dalben decision of 1983. The Supreme Court CLEARLY ruled that intentional holecarding is legal, as long as the HC'er uses no device, as long as he's legally seated at the table, and as long as the information is available to anyone at the table. This landmark case did NOT address one way or another, whether or not 'spooking' is legal.

Just wondering: What if the information was only available to one or two of the seats, rather than the whole table?