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  #121  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 07:31 PM
victorino victorino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthree View Post
Guilty by inference. What happened to a beyond a shadow of doubt. It doesn't sound like they could prove anything.
...
Fortunately or unfortunately, "Since the enactment of the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000, the burden is on the government to establish, by a preponderance of the evidence, that seized property is subject to forfeiture."

So, the Eighth Circuit "[concluded] that the government proved by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant currency was substantially connected to a narcotics offense."

I'm no lawyer, but it seems that "preponderance" is not a particularly high legal standard, not on the same level as proof or probable cause...perhaps "preposterous" would be a better word, I dunno. It is what it is, act accordingly.

Last edited by victorino; October 2nd, 2011 at 07:36 PM.
  #122  
Old October 2nd, 2011, 07:35 PM
victorino victorino is offline
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Originally Posted by creeping panther View Post
Well put, my thoughts exactly.

Actually he is lucky, if it happened today they would have called in a drone to blow up the car and him in it,,,,OH,,,wait, then they would have also destroyed the money they needed to pay for their, partys, prostitutes, drugs, girlfriends, tanning salons, buzz cuts, and really big guns,,,no, no, no drone!

CP
Don't drone me bro!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
  #123  
Old October 12th, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Deathclutch Deathclutch is offline
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Pretty wild story. I'm surprised that the cops were so open minded about the possibility of a professional gambler.
  #124  
Old October 12th, 2011, 06:20 PM
blackriver blackriver is offline
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I at relevant borders they seem very familiar with this now.i think the higher ups as well.if ever pulled over I will deny having money and if questioned about a search just keep demanding to speak with someone higher up until you get a non-mouthbreather and explain out to them
  #125  
Old October 12th, 2011, 06:34 PM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorino View Post
Fortunately or unfortunately, "Since the enactment of the Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000, the burden is on the government to establish, by a preponderance of the evidence, that seized property is subject to forfeiture."

So, the Eighth Circuit "[concluded] that the government proved by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant currency was substantially connected to a narcotics offense."

I'm no lawyer, but it seems that "preponderance" is not a particularly high legal standard, not on the same level as proof or probable cause...perhaps "preposterous" would be a better word, I dunno. It is what it is, act accordingly.
Preponderance and probable cause are similar in that they both require you to be convinced that something happened, or that there is more evidence that it happened than that it didn't. Preponderance is usually what they are looking for in civil court. That's what makes this so dangerous; they are using civil court standards for criminal matters. You could even be found not guilty of the drug dealing but still lose your money if they can demonstrate there was reasonable doubt but you're probably a drug dealer anyway.
  #126  
Old October 12th, 2011, 08:24 PM
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jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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This whole episode is shocking to me. Hadn't even thought of having to explain where all the cash came from if/when I get pulled over. Thanks to all for input here.
  #127  
Old November 21st, 2011, 01:42 PM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Default My recent stop

I had an interesting stop several days ago that may show a different perspective on how certain groups are treated when pulled over.

I and the wife had been playing at a casino and were heading home late in the evening, 1.30am. I was driving a large touring type car. We were on a 2lane state HW going 53 in a 55. All of a sudden in the distance I saw a red flashing light that looked strange coming up from behind. I called attention to it to the wife, she said must be an ambulance, as it got closer a bright side beam was then directed at our car but I did not like the looks of the red light and we were on a very deserted stretch of country 2 lane. It was apparent that the car behind wanted me to pull over, but I was very hesitant as it did not resemble any police red flasher I had ever seen. After a bit I pulled over very cautiously as I wondered if it was a robber using a flasher, as I stopped I watched in my mirror with the car in gear in case I did not like what I saw, but that damn bright spotlight really had me at a disadvantage, and I was getting mad.

With my muscles tensed and my eyes riveted to my side mirror I locked on the figure coming up beside the car, when it was almost too late I saw the uniform of a State Police. I was seething because my wife and I could have been robbed had this not been a cop or,, killed and robbed. As I rolled the window down a bit he said the normal license etc. command. I told him in short manner that it was in my pouch in the trunk while exiting the car and remote popping the trunk and heading back,,I am sure he at this time was shitting his drawers with a passenger in the front and me going to the back with a trunk opening all in a very fast pace,,,at which point I turned on him and gave him a piece of my mind as to his strange flasher and how I almost was not going to stop and how apprehensive we were and why did he stop me at all?? He said my brights were on as he was coming at me the opposite way and I did not dim them, maybe, maybe not. I again told him I had a real problem with the situation and he said the lights were a new strobe type and the old gumball was gone,,,he knew I was pissed.

Now I am reaching into the trunk, into a fairly large leather pouch and as I open it there is in plain sight several K$ and my wallet which has my license, and I give it to him, walk to the front with the pouch and my wife has the Reg. and Proff of Ins. She is also carrying about 5k$. The cop says to get in my car and he will return after he checks something. In a few minutes he returns and says he is just going to give me a warning and how did we do at the casino? I was surprised at that but then realized that I had my players card around my neck. He was then being very nice and we went on our way.

I think from this experience I learned it makes a difference being people in your 50's and 60's, driving a older persons car, being clean cut in semi-business attire and acting, being offended, at the cop for stopping you. I also think the fact that I had a players card around my neck diffused the money situation.

However, for the rest of the night and the next day I was very quiet and introspective about the stop, because had this been a fake cop we could have been killed, had I not stopped soon enough maybe I would have been arrested, had it been my daughters I would not have wanted them to stop for that red flasher on that road, that late at night. Disturbing.

CP
  #128  
Old November 21st, 2011, 01:55 PM
bronco60 bronco60 is offline
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Yeah, and multiply all that by 10^4 if your skin is too dark, or you appear
"foreign", muslim, sikh, etc...
  #129  
Old November 21st, 2011, 03:08 PM
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blackjack avenger blackjack avenger is offline
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Default be a tourist

Quote:
Originally Posted by creeping panther;
being clean cut in semi-business attire and acting, being offended, at the cop for stopping you. I also think the fact that I had a players card around my neck diffused the money situation.


CP
Being clean cut? How did u get by?

I mentioned the idea of having casino & tourist stuff like brochures with you.

Glad it went ok

Probably the wife saved your dirty butt
  #130  
Old November 21st, 2011, 09:44 PM
paddywhack paddywhack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
Glad it went ok

Probably the wife saved your dirty butt
Ditto.....

She's a little less likely to throw down..
 

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