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  #21  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:36 AM
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You mean like Sweden?
Actually, Sweden has had a rightist gov't for a while now.
  #22  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:41 AM
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Or, we could try tying our money back to precious metals again. Maybe we could get rid of the central Keynesian bank while we're at it. That would not be socialism. You can only print more money up to a point-- then there is a day of reckoning. No, debt is not bad per se, but too much debt is bad. We have too much debt.
A few economists like this idea. Most economists think this would be nuts. In any case it is not related to debt. Backing the dollar by digging up metal and burying it again does not prevent debt.
  #23  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:19 AM
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States need their own state-owned bank, and the US needs its
own central bank, similar to what Alexander Hamilton advocated. zg
I am not convinced we need a central bank, so long as the currency has gold backing and the formula for that is accepted uniformly, I see no problem.
  #24  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:27 AM
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A few economists like this idea. Most economists think this would be nuts. In any case it is not related to debt. Backing the dollar by digging up metal and burying it again does not prevent debt.
Why doesn't it? It prevents you from printing money you have no backing for. That would mean no easy borrowing from yourself so to speak, as occurs now. It would tighten the money supply and force the country to be fically responsible.

I think many modern economists are in love with the fiat money system and always looking for ways to make it work instead of realizing its limitations. The idea that you can fine tune it by human manipulation appeals to them I suppose. But humans are only human, and they often act inappropriately when it comes to money and power. I say take it out of human hands; give it the discipline of being tied to precious metals.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:27 AM
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I am not convinced we need a central bank, so long as the currency has gold backing and the formula for that is accepted uniformly, I see no problem.
These are two different concepts. A central bank is central to the operation of a capitalist system. Without it, either inflation or interest rates will run wild. And without it, recessions are far more dangerous. Capitalism, by its nature, is unstable. Hence the constant cycles. There must be a stabilizing force. Better monetary policy, with its slow, deliberate adjustments, than an executive branch issuing wage and price controls, which are not only draconian, but don’t have a good history of effectiveness.

But then, Bachmann thinks all this is trivial.
  #26  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:35 AM
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Why doesn't it? It prevents you from printing money you have no backing for. That would mean no easy borrowing from yourself so to speak, as occurs now. It would tighten the money supply and force the country to be fically responsible.

I think many modern economists are in love with the fiat money system and always looking for ways to make it work instead of realizing its limitations. The idea that you can fine tune it by human manipulation appeals to them I suppose. But humans are only human, and they often act inappropriately when it comes to money and power. I say take it out of human hands; give it the discipline of being tied to precious metals.
It does not prevent the issuance of bonds and t-bills, or changes to interest rates. I don't see how a standard built on rocks (as we had in the Stone Age) reduces controls. Or, why we would want to reduce monetary control to blunt the wilder cycles of the economy. Cash is playing a smaller and smaller part of economies. Eventually, most of it will end up in coin collections.

But then, Bachmann thinks all this is trivial.
  #27  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:37 AM
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These are two different concepts. A central bank is central to the operation of a capitalist system. Without it, either inflation or interest rates will run wild. And without it, recessions are far more dangerous. Capitalism, by its nature, is unstable. Hence the constant cycles. There must be a stabilizing force. Better monetary policy, with its slow, deliberate adjustments, than an executive branch issuing wage and price controls, which are not only draconian, but don’t have a good history of effectiveness.

But then, Bachmann thinks all this is trivial.
We had no central bank until the Fed. But be that as it may, a central bank under the authority of the government is one thing, but under the authority of private individuals/corporations as is our Fed, is another. In any case, there would be little to tweak if we went back to a metals backed currency. It's our tweaking that has gotten us into all the trouble since the Fed was created. It's like trying to get something for nothing. It cannot go on forever. The metals backed currency keeps one rooted in reality. It is a natural deterrent to getting too deeply in debt. It's like Ponzi-- everything is fine until you run out of money to pay everyone their expected interest. Then the whole building of cards begins to collapse. It was fun while it lasted!
  #28  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:49 AM
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Well, we had central banks going back to 1791. Before then, we really didn’t have much of an economy to speak of.

No, it is not tweaking that got us in trouble. It is a lack of regulation that allowed greedy crooks to instantly wipe out trillions in value. (And I blame both parties, the Reps for their anti-regulation philosophy and the Dems for throwing out their principles for votes and donations.) Tweaking is saving our asses. And none of this has to do with debt. As for the current problem, I lay the blame at the third party. This focus on a “debt problem” is sidetracking us from fixing the ailing economy. The Tea Party has no concept of economics and is causing great harm by spouting simplistic nonsense and refusing to compromise one iota from their fifth grade understandings.
  #29  
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:57 AM
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Well, we had central banks going back to 1791. Before then, we really didn’t have much of an economy to speak of.

No, it is not tweaking that got us in trouble. It is a lack of regulation that allowed greedy crooks to instantly wipe out trillions in value. (And I blame both parties, the Reps for their anti-regulation philosophy and the Dems for throwing out their principles for votes and donations.) Tweaking is saving our asses. And none of this has to do with debt. As for the current problem, I lay the blame at the third party. This focus on a “debt problem” is sidetracking us from fixing the ailing economy. The Tea Party has no concept of economics and is causing great harm by spouting simplistic nonsense and refusing to compromise one iota from their fifth grade understandings.
Go Tea Party!!!!.!!!! Deal with it Qflit.........

Mac
  #30  
Old August 24th, 2011, 08:38 AM
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Default I don't see any economic experts. Their expertise is shown by what they advocate.

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Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
Well, we had central banks going back to 1791. Before then, we really didn’t have much of an economy to speak of.

No, it is not tweaking that got us in trouble. It is a lack of regulation that allowed greedy crooks to instantly wipe out trillions in value. (And I blame both parties, the Reps for their anti-regulation philosophy and the Dems for throwing out their principles for votes and donations.) Tweaking is saving our asses. And none of this has to do with debt. As for the current problem, I lay the blame at the third party. This focus on a “debt problem” is sidetracking us from fixing the ailing economy. The Tea Party has no concept of economics and is causing great harm by spouting simplistic nonsense and refusing to compromise one iota from their fifth grade understandings.
Anyone with good credit knows the only way to run your finances smart is to pay your bills first , then if there is any money left over think whether to save it or use it for something more than the basics. You don't think I can just pay my bills every month but now that I have an extra $100 this month I think I'll buy a $40,000 car. You won't be able to pay your bills for 5 years with your normal income. You start to have to borrow to pay each month and now you have to add interest payments in addition to the new bill for your car payment. You start out borrowing each month and the interest keeps taking a bigger chunk of your monthly as it grows. Pretty soon you can't pay your car payment or your regular monthly bills. Each month you get further and further from making your original monthly bills until all the money you make goes to service your debt.

Everyone knows this yet some idiots seem to think it doesn't apply to the government. More and more of the taxes collected goes to service the debt every year. That means less of our taxes can be used to pay for existing government. On top of that they keep adding to the number of government programs that are the regularly monthly cost. People suggest that we are supposed to listen to people that can not see this as a problem. The increasing tax burden has strangled the economy. The monthly goes up every month from government growth and the amount needed to service the debt goes up as well.

These people who say they are economic experts but think it is a good idea to engage in this folly are economic idiots. Any basic knowledge of economics would tell you this is a road to ruin. The end of the road is the tax everything at 100% and it is only enough to service the debt with nothing left to finance government. It is basic math. The rate at which we approach this point has been compounding exponentially. An ever increasing tax burden paying for an ever shrinking portion of the budget. I am supposed to believe these guys are experts? I am not that stupid. The only people that benefit from this are the bankers that own the debt. We become slaves to them sold down the river by our government and their irresponsible and even criminal spending and taxing increases without being responsible and paying off our debt first. Keynesian economic theory is destroying our future! It may work on the tiniest of scales (I am not convinced of that) but it definitely doesn't work on the macro scale they are applying it to. The larger the debt that must be maintained the less effective more spending is at spurring growth. It is basic math. Remember the equation that everyone living paycheck to paycheck must adhere to. Pay your bills off first then if there is anything left over save or spend it responsibly. Don't sign yourself up for recurring payments that you can not make.
 

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