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  #1  
Old August 24th, 2011, 03:53 PM
moo321 moo321 is offline
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Default Bullshit I've read on the internet: Heat and spreads

Heat is not usually caused by bet spreads. That is, some floor usually doesn't look over and say 'wow, he's spreading 1 to 8, I'd better call surveillance!" However, much of the literature and many of the posts here advocate this idea.

This is mostly Bullshit!

Heat is usually a function of crossing a certain betting threshold. Some places they'll call "checks play" at $100, or $500, or table max, or $25 at fitzgerald's downtown. Whatever levels necessitates this call, may be their threshold at which they start watching.

At some places, betting a certain denomination causes attention. Black action often does this. Spread 5-300 in green? Fine. Spread 10-100 with a black? The dealer starts screaming "Black action!"

A smart surveillance crew may bust your ass for spreading a lot, but as long as you don't do anything that sets off their alarms, you're probably safe.

That said, it's important to note that Vegas has a lot of sharp surveillance guys. So in Vegas, your spread may get you busted.
  #2  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:23 PM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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That's a strong word to describe your sentiment. Heat can be caused by an assortment of things, a combination of things, or nothing real at all. You can get heat because of a rumor or because of how you look. Or it can be a threshold. Or it can be a spread. Or it can be proper use of insurance and surrender.
  #3  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:28 PM
blackjackomaha blackjackomaha is offline
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I agree that your spread's "impact" on heat is not as important as some have suggested, but I do not agree that you should spread at your heart's content. I think what moo is getting at is that your spread alone will not bring heat. An observant pit will notice a bet change from small to chunky green - especially if you've been playing small the majority of the time.

As moo said, any play with $100 chips+ will result in a dealer calling 'black' (or whatever color) action. Generally, a large increase will be accompanied by a 'checks play' - varies on policy. A few calls are nothing to worry about; however, you have to pay attention to the pit's actions.

Of course, certain stores' tolerance and paranoia levels are so odd, you add 1 unit to your bet and your scrutinized for every play. But that's another story...
  #4  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Sucker Sucker is offline
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Agree with A.M. Spreading bets WILL bring heat, of course. But it's nowhere NEAR the most common cause of heat.
  #5  
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:29 PM
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Agreed, its mostly complex and conditional, no single definitive answer. Few times I got anything like heat (more like the start of heat I would say - I usually don't stick around longer to find out). Ironically (at least according to conventional wisdom) it was at lower end games.

-Spreading 10-200 at R. in AC on a early morning weekday hour, and having it turn into a split, double bet I won. This just caught their attention, as I'm sure I was probably the biggest action at that place at that time, of all things
-Spreading 5-200 on a weekday evening at a good rules game
-15-200, pfft wasn't even reaching a big spread, the place was just getting oddly heaty at the time. Assume the heat level sometimes just randomly fluctuates from time to time at the same place, depending on occurrences I am not even aware of
-Someone else starting to get heat for constant in place wong out, wasn't even a huge spread and had heavy cover (again at R.)

At all these places I've been there before and after with just as big spreads (if not bigger, 1 - 2 x 15 spreads), and get no heat.

Its different from place to place and time to time and pit to pit, think the most important thing is to notice when things are first getting a little heaty and not push things.

Last edited by Gamblor; August 24th, 2011 at 04:34 PM.
  #6  
Old August 24th, 2011, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
Heat can be caused by an assortment of things, a combination of things, or nothing real at all. You can get heat because of a rumor or because of how you look. Or it can be a threshold. Or it can be a spread. Or it can be proper use of insurance and surrender.
Very keen observations, AM. PC's vary widely and key on what, to THEM (or their store), defines a counter.
  #7  
Old August 24th, 2011, 09:46 PM
pit15 pit15 is offline
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One of things that is guaranteed to get you heat, anywhere, on any game, is winning enough.
  #8  
Old August 24th, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey View Post
That's a strong word to describe your sentiment. Heat can be caused by an assortment of things, a combination of things, or nothing real at all. You can get heat because of a rumor or because of how you look. Or it can be a threshold. Or it can be a spread. Or it can be proper use of insurance and surrender.

I had a dealer call loudly out to the pit once when I doubled down on my A7. Really surprised me that this was considered an unusual play. Not long after, floorman comes over and starts taking interest in me; "What do you do for a living?" "Where are you from?"
  #9  
Old August 25th, 2011, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
Heat is not usually caused by bet spreads. That is, some floor usually doesn't look over and say 'wow, he's spreading 1 to 8, I'd better call surveillance!" However, much of the literature and many of the posts here advocate this idea.

This is mostly Bullshit!

Heat is usually a function of crossing a certain betting threshold. Some places they'll call "checks play" at $100, or $500, or table max, or $25 at fitzgerald's downtown. Whatever levels necessitates this call, may be their threshold at which they start watching.

At some places, betting a certain denomination causes attention. Black action often does this. Spread 5-300 in green? Fine. Spread 10-100 with a black? The dealer starts screaming "Black action!"

A smart surveillance crew may bust your ass for spreading a lot, but as long as you don't do anything that sets off their alarms, you're probably safe.

That said, it's important to note that Vegas has a lot of sharp surveillance guys. So in Vegas, your spread may get you busted.

Some simple, but effective moves that hold some sway in my opinion:

1) always cap your bets with one or two red chips or one or two green chips (for black chippers). You're bet adjustments won't be as obvious compared to someone who just goes from red to green and it will make you're bets look less precise.

2) If you win or push a hand, collect the money as soon as possible (as soon as the dealer's hands leave the bet). This is so if you have to make a bet adjustment the next round you don't have to make an obvious change of bet.

3) Always get you're bet out there before the ploppies - don't ever be the last guy to throw out your bet. This means having the true count ready in you're head after the last card hits the felt.


4) Don't use a huge bet ramp so you aren't constantly making changes to the bets. 4-6 different bets from min to max.

5) Insure on you're very first min bet insurance hand, and split on you're very first min bet 20 (in which the dealer has a 4 through 6). This will be encased in the dealer's/pit bosses memory for the entire time, so it will not be as unusual when you do it on a high bet. You can do a few other min bet goofy moves (moves that you'd only do on a high count) so it doesn't seem like you only do those moves on high counts; but again, just do it the first time around so it has the maximum impact.

7) Don't use huge stacks of red or green chips when betting (I.E.betting all red on $30 or more bets, or betting all green on $150 or more bets).

8) Going from a high bet at the end of a shoe to min bet at the beginning of another shoe is one of the most obvious counter moves in my opinion; especially if you are going from two hands to one hand.
-Bet the first hand of a session as double min bet on two hands (unless you only play one handed)
-Bet at least double you're minimum bet on the first hand if you ended the previous shoe on a big bet. If you are at one hand min bet the final hand of a shoe, you can stay at one hand one bet the beginning of the next shoe.
-Either always bet on two hands all the time or just bet on two hands on the first hand of the shoe, but go back to one hand when the count dips below 0.

9) Always having a beer in front of you and always make sure to loudly proclaim the type of drink you want to the cocktail waittress. Always act way drunker than you are (slurring speech works good).

10) Talk incessently and try to look at the ploppies even if it's gibberish or boring. Surveillance will see that you are looking at people and talking. If you use a level 2 or greater count this can be difficult. If there's no ploppies at the table, talk to the dealer. K-O or Hi-Lo are great because you can easily count from out of the corner of you're eye.

11) Get emotional about large wins and large losses. Turn it into drama queen type stuff, especially on large bets. On losses, swear a little and throw out the cards in a manner similar to that of an angry brat ; hand pumping ploppies on wins works good. Don't be so excessive that it will piss off the dealer or get you in trouble.

12) Wearing a cowboy hat or hip-hop apparel automatically subtracts 20 IQ points for you in the mind of pits/dealers/and surveillance.



A great book to read is Burning the Tables by Ian Anderson

http://www.amazon.com/Burning-Tables...DateDescending

Last edited by FrankieT; August 25th, 2011 at 04:23 PM.
  #10  
Old August 25th, 2011, 09:57 AM
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Sonny Sonny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
Some places they'll call "checks play" at $100, or $500, or table max, or $25 at fitzgerald's downtown.
At some of their tables, $25 is the table max.

-Sonny-
 

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