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  #11  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 06:22 PM
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fence sitter? lilly pad sitter?!

I nominate a hookah-smokin' caterpillar
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  #12  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 08:38 PM
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Even with his gaffs now and then, I like Trump. Too bad he isn't running.
Just a couple select comments on Donald Trump:

Trump’s simplistic view of politics is well-known. But, first let me concentrate on his creds as a US president:

· Trump runs what he calls (called) Trump University. He is being sued by customers that have paid thousands of dollars, and all he does is try to sell them even more expensive services. The FTC forced him to stop calling it a university, since that is false advertising. (Damn those gov’t regulations that don’t allow you to lie to the public and rip them off for tens of thousands.)
· His books push, what he calls, the “art of the deal.” In fact, what he calls artful dealing is signing contracts and then violating them. Then, forcing the other side to give more and accept less under threat of never doing business again. Extortion is the commonly used word for this practice.
· Has Trump ever made any money? He inherited $400,000,000 from his father. That doesn’t count the millions of chips his father bought at AC casinos and sat on to provide Trump with funds to make payroll. In fact, if you look at the estimated net worth of Trump, according to Forbes (not Trump’s figures that include the value of condos that he has sold), if he had just put his inheritance in CDs, he would have about the same amount. That is, he has never actually made any money. Meanwhile, he has lost massive funds for the bond-holders that bought into his failed casinos. (None of which have ever turned a profit, despite several erasures of debt.)
· When I was a Citibank, Trump owed us in excess of the amount he inherited. It was in unsecuritized loans. I don’t think I’m betraying any privileged info when I say he actually had negative net worth. He claims he never went bankrupt. I guess that depends on your definition. He never filed for personal bankruptcy (although his companies have several times), because CB bailed him out. He was “too big to fail,” as CB would have lost the entirety of the loans and decided to carry him. CB made him sell his yacht and put him on an allowance. But, fact is, whatever he thinks about the later bailout of CB, CB bailed him out. So, why would we listen to his opinions on bailouts?
· Now, let us look at his positions. His position on the debt is to renegotiate. Hardly surprising as that has always been his position. Make a deal and then break it. But consider what this means. He is saying that the US should do what he has done many times, ask creditors to settle for 50 cents on the dollar. That is, tell foreign governments that he will not fully pay back loans. Forget that this is what third-world countries do, or that this could be considered an act of war, look at what it would do to our credit rating or respect in the world. To borrow money and fail to pay it back. OK, for those of you that hate all furriners, think of what it would do in this country. Treasuries are owned by states, cities, universities, charities, pension funds, 401Ks. Hey, maybe Trump is rich enough to not care. But, we are talking about screwing over hundreds of millions of people. Does he actually think he can manufacture trillions of dollars by renegotiating debt?
· Let us look at how he would deal with gas prices. He says that he would “demand” that OPEC change their prices to his demands. He thinks this is easy. So, I guess he wants to declare war with numerous other countries, including allies. And, he thinks he has the right to demand that a country like Saudi Arabia, a desert land with one natural resource, must change the price of that one resource until it is drained and they have nothing.
· Let us look at how he would govern. He has said that he would tell Congress what to do. Now, I know he is a “businessman” and unsuccessfully tried to patent the phrase “you’re fired,” but, if he thinks our three branch system of gov’t means that the president controls the other two branches and he can fire the congress and USSC, he is living in the wrong country.
· OK, let us look at his honesty. Already covered are his lies about his money-making. He is proud of his buildings, even though all of his casinos have lost money and faced bankruptcy repeatedly. (How can you lose money owning a casino? It’s a license to print money.) One California casino sued to drop his name because it was embarrassing. Of course he pulled money out of the casinos, even while his bond holders lost their shirts. Over and over. But let’s go further into his ability to tell the truth:
· Even in simple areas, he lies. Every ad for Trump World Towers claims that it is the highest residential building in the world at 90 stories. 90 stories. But, it has 72 stories. It is right in front of my window. I can count to 72. (Wiki and every other legit source also lists it as 72, and if you look at the Wiki article, my building is also in the picture.) Are there 18 hidden underground stories? No, there are three stories of garages. I watched (and listened to) the building being built for a year. I have the home and mobile phone numbers of the construction manager. (Manhattan is a smaller community than people might think.) But, it isn’t just this building – he lies about the floors in all of his buildings. Look up the building, then go count the floors. If you can’t tell the truth about something that is so obvious, that simply requires you to take a picture and count, how can you trust him about anything?
· Look at his general dealings and respect for neighbors. He bought a large estate in West Palm Beach. He got a good deal because it was close to the airport and there was much noise. Everyone knows that land near airports has less value. But, he then attempted to get them to move the airport to make his property more valuable. To actually move an airport built before his purchase because it bothered him. Failed.
· His embarrassing attempts to build golf courses in Scotland are funny. Some houses were in the way. He got the local council to condemn the beautiful properties that he wanted. This was the first time in all of Scottish history (which is very long) that a government taking of land for a private enterprise would have been successful. Land is sacred in Scotland and the history goes back far farther than ours. At first he was welcomed. When the forced taking of land was discovered, the population turned against him and he failed.
· His insecurity is also bothersome. In so many ways. Only one example is his constant need to talk about celebs. His building across the street bragged about the celebs owning units, even before it was completed. Who the frig cares? Like many NYC buildings, mine rejects most celebs because we don’t want paparazzi or silly fans hanging around.
· On the subjects of insecurity and general dishonesty, it’s silly, but his constant demands that his hair is real is funny. My GF goes to a doctor in the same building that includes the most respected hair-plug doctor in NYC. Guess who she has seen, more than once, coming from his office. As I said, Manhattan is a small world in many ways.
· On his buildings – he loves to brag about them. I was looking for a new place 15 years ago, and had my eye on one of Trump’s that is in a great spot and has fantastic views of Central Park. My RE agent refused to show it saying I shouldn’t even consider the building. Trump built the building, and sold it as a co-op. Residents don’t actually own an apartment. They own shares in the building and the rights to occupy an apartment. This can work. But, they also have liabilities for the corporation (building) in which they have shares. Trump pulled a fast one. He sold the land from under the building and then bought a 20 year lease. I know of no other case in the world where this has happened. The lease was up. This means that residents, that thought they bought a home, found out they owned shares in a building, but not the enormously expensive, upper East Side Manhattan land the building was built on. Well, you can’t move a skyscraper. So, the land holder can charge whatever he wants. And he did. The residents, as shareholders, each had to pay up to $10,000 a month to live in what they thought they had purchased. And, they couldn’t even sell. They would still be libel. I saw a penthouse with Central Park views that should have gone for several million put on auction for $200,000. No one bid.
· OK, let us look at him as “presidential” and diplomatic. Trump is well-known for a response to anyone that is critical. “You’re stupid – and you’re ugly.” He has sent this out to dozens of critics. One op-ed writer said he is the recipient of three “stupid and ugly” letters. Sometimes he adds “fat.” Seriously, do we want a president that uses a second-grade insult, on a regular basis, as a response to criticism?
· Now, let us look at his discussions of opponents. Trump said about Romney that he’s nothing as a businessman and he is worth billions more. Good grief, does he really think that’s what matters? When is he going to unzip his pants and pull out a ruler?

Hope I don’t get sued for this post. I can take being called stupid and ugly

Last edited by QFIT; September 2nd, 2011 at 08:52 PM.
  #13  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:41 PM
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aslan aslan is offline
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Dear Intelligent and Handsome,

I've added a few notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
Just a couple select comments on Donald Trump:

Trump’s simplistic view of politics is well-known. But, first let me concentrate on his creds as a US president:

· Trump runs what he calls (called) Trump University. He is being sued by customers that have paid thousands of dollars, and all he does is try to sell them even more expensive services. The FTC forced him to stop calling it a university, since that is false advertising. (Damn those gov’t regulations that don’t allow you to lie to the public and rip them off for tens of thousands.)

Was FTC successful? If not, why not?

· His books push, what he calls, the “art of the deal.” In fact, what he calls artful dealing is signing contracts and then violating them. Then, forcing the other side to give more and accept less under threat of never doing business again. Extortion is the commonly used word for this practice.

I don't think breaking a contract and trying to renegotiate is legally extortion. It may be unscrupulous, or it may be mitigated some by the type of people he is dealing with.

· Has Trump ever made any money? He inherited $400,000,000 from his father. That doesn’t count the millions of chips his father bought at AC casinos and sat on to provide Trump with funds to make payroll. In fact, if you look at the estimated net worth of Trump, according to Forbes (not Trump’s figures that include the value of condos that he has sold), if he had just put his inheritance in CDs, he would have about the same amount. That is, he has never actually made any money. Meanwhile, he has lost massive funds for the bond-holders that bought into his failed casinos. (None of which have ever turned a profit, despite several erasures of debt.)
· When I was a Citibank, Trump owed us in excess of the amount he inherited. It was in unsecuritized loans. I don’t think I’m betraying any privileged info when I say he actually had negative net worth. He claims he never went bankrupt. I guess that depends on your definition. He never filed for bankruptcy, because CB bailed him out. He was “too big to fail,” as CB would have lost the entirety of the loans and decided to carry him. CB made him sell his yacht and put him on an allowance. But, fact is, whatever he thinks about the later bailout of CB, CB bailed him out. So, why would we listen to his opinions on bailouts?

In its October 7, 2007 Forbes 400 issue, "Acreage Aces", Forbes valued Trump's wealth at $3.0 billion.[74] His wealth went down and then up in the 2000s recession, but according to Forbes, Trump's wealth was valued at $2.7 billion in March 2011.[2] though Trump claimed it was much more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

· Now, let us look at his positions. His position on the debt is to renegotiate. Hardly surprising as that has always been his position. Make a deal and then break it. But consider what this means. He is saying that the US should do what he has done many times, ask creditors to settle for 50 cents on the dollar. That is, tell foreign governments that he will not fully pay back loans. Forget that this is what third-world countries do, or that this could be considered an act of war, look at what it would do to our credit rating or respect in the world. To borrow money and fail to pay it back. OK, for those of you that hate all furriners, think of what it would do in this country. Treasuries are owned by states, cities, universities, charities, pension funds, 401Ks. Hey, maybe Trump is rich enough to not care. But, we are talking about screwing over hundreds of millions of people. Does he actually think he can manufacture trillions of dollars by renegotiating debt?

I've seen several interviews, some quite lengthy, and never heard this position on debt.

· Let us look at how he would deal with gas prices. He says that he would “demand” that OPEC change their prices to his demands. He thinks this is easy. So, I guess he wants to declare war with numerous other countries, including allies. And, he thinks he has the right to demand that a country like Saudi Arabia, a desert land with one natural resource, must change the price of that one resource until it is drained and they have nothing.

Yes, it's their oil, but what do you call exercising monopoly power on those who need oil? I believe we need to become energy independent, but in the interim, the fair price should be set by "natural" supply and demand, not artificially created supply and demand. It's their right, but I would play hardball with them economically.

· Let us look at how he would govern. He has said that he would tell Congress what to do. Now, I know he is a “businessman” and unsuccessfully tried to patent the phrase “you’re fired,” but, if he thinks our three branch system of gov’t means that the president controls the other two branches and he can fire the congress and USSC, he is living in the wrong country.
· Let us look at his concept of government. He says changing the economy is simple. You just tell Congress what to do. He may have the ability to fire people in his companies. But, does he actually believe that the Congress and USSC report to the president, and that he can fire them? There is a word for that.

He can't fire the Congress, but being an equal power, he can exert more pressure on them. Some Presidents have been successful doing this through appeals to the people, like Reagan. He also has veto power, and we all know how Congressmen and women like to give pork to their constituents.

· OK, let us look at his honesty. Already covered are his lies about his money-making. He is proud of his buildings, even though all of his casinos have lost money and faced bankruptcy repeatedly. (How can you lose money owning a casino? It’s a license to print money.) One California casino sued to drop his name because it was embarrassing. Of course he pulled money out of the casinos, even while his bond holders lost their shirts. Over and over. But let’s go further into his ability to tell the truth:

Name two politicians who always tell the truth. I said two, because I think Ron Paul may be one.

· Even in simple areas, he lies. Every ad for Trump World Towers claims that it is the highest residential building in the world at 90 stories. 90 stories. But, it has 72 stories. It is right in front of my window. I can count to 72. (Wiki and every other legit source also lists it as 72, and if you look at the Wiki article, my building is also in the picture.) Are there 18 hidden underground stories? No, there are three stories of garages. I watched (and listened to) the building being built for a year. I have the home and mobile phone numbers of the construction manager. (Manhattan is a smaller community than people might think.) But, it isn’t just this building – he lies about the floors in all of his buildings. Look up the building, then go count the floors. If you can’t tell the truth about something that is so obvious, that simply requires you to take a picture and count, how can you trust him about anything?

I went to his website for the Trump World Towers. For a braggart, he doesn't even mention the height of the tower. He does mention that the condos vary from 10 to 16 foot ceilings, so that may explain a difference between "stories" and floors, I don't know.

· Look at his general dealings and respect for neighbors. He bought a large estate in West Palm Beach. He got a good deal because it was close to the airport and there was much noise. Everyone knows that land near airports has less value. But, he then attempted to get them to move the airport to make his property more valuable. To actually move an airport built before his purchase because it bothered him. Failed.
· His embarrassing attempts to build golf courses in Scotland are funny. Some houses were in the way. He got the local council to condemn the beautiful properties that he wanted. This was the first time in all of Scottish history (which is very long) that a government taking of land for a private enterprise would have been successful. Land is sacred in Scotland and the history goes back far farther than ours. At first he was welcomed. When the forced taking of land was discovered, the population turned against him and he failed.
·

That's better than governments in the US who use eminent domain to push "poor" people out of their homes so that developers can build shopping centers and housing for rich people unde the guise of the general welfare.

His insecurity is also bothersome. In so many ways. Only one example is his constant need to talk about celebs. His building across the street bragged about the celebs owning units, even before it was completed. Who the frig cares? Like many NYC buildings, mine rejects most celebs because we don’t want paparazzi or silly fans hanging around.

In American culture, shallow as it often is, "celebs" is a good selling point. I am happy to hear that you are not impressed. One trait of many New Yorkers, not yourself, that bothers me considerably, is the constant name dropping and references to people they know who are famous, or own three Mercedes, or own a Rolls Royce, or who have their own airplane, or pay $50,000 an month rent, ad infinitum.

· On the subjects of insecurity and general dishonesty, it’s silly, but his constant demands that his hair is real is funny. My GF goes to a doctor in the same building that includes the most respected hair-plug doctor in NYC. Guess who she has seen, more than once, coming from his office. As I said, Manhattan is a small world in many ways.
· On his buildings – he loves to brag about them. I was looking for a new place 15 years ago, and had my eye on one of Trump’s that is in a great spot and has fantastic views of Central Park. My RE agent refused to show it saying I shouldn’t even consider the building. Trump built the building, and sold it as a co-op. Residents don’t actually own an apartment. They own shares in the building and the rights to occupy an apartment. This can work. But, they also have liabilities for the corporation (building) in which they have shares. Trump pulled a fast one. He sold the land from under the building and then bought a 20 year lease. I know of no other case in the world where this has happened. The lease was up. This means that residents, that thought they bought a home, found out they owned shares in a building, but not the enormously expensive, upper East Side Manhattan land the building was built on. Well, you can’t move a skyscraper. So, the land holder can charge whatever he wants. And he did. The residents, as shareholders, each had to pay up to $10,000 a month to live in what they thought they had purchased. And, they couldn’t even sell. They would still be libel. I saw a penthouse with Central Park views that should have gone for several million put on auction for $200,000. No one bid.


Got me on that one. But he wasn't the one who raised the rent, which if he was as bad as you say he is, he would have kept the building and raised the rent himself. The greedy landowner may just end up with nothing before it's all over.

·
OK, let us look at him as “presidential” and diplomatic. Trump is well-known for a response to anyone that is critical. “You’re stupid – and you’re ugly.” He has sent this out to dozens of critics. One op-ed writer said he is the recipient of three “stupid and ugly” letters. Sometimes he adds “fat.” Seriously, do we want a president that uses a second-grade insult, on a regular basis, as a response to criticism?

Sounds like a liberal! Joke joke j/k

· Now, let us look at his discussions of opponents. Trump said about Romney that he’s nothing as a businessman and he is worth billions more. Good grief, does he really think that’s what matters? When is he going to unzip his pants and pull out a ruler?

Never heard him say that one.

Hope I don’t get sued for this post. I can take being called stupid and ugly
Signed: Stupid old ugly Aslan

  #14  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:07 PM
mmeyers mmeyers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
Just a couple select comments on Donald Trump:

Trump’s simplistic view of politics is well-known. But, first let me concentrate on his creds as a US president:

· Trump runs what he calls (called) Trump University. He is being sued by customers that have paid thousands of dollars, and all he does is try to sell them even more expensive services. The FTC forced him to stop calling it a university, since that is false advertising. (Damn those gov’t regulations that don’t allow you to lie to the public and rip them off for tens of thousands.)
· His books push, what he calls, the “art of the deal.” In fact, what he calls artful dealing is signing contracts and then violating them. Then, forcing the other side to give more and accept less under threat of never doing business again. Extortion is the commonly used word for this practice.
· Has Trump ever made any money? He inherited $400,000,000 from his father. That doesn’t count the millions of chips his father bought at AC casinos and sat on to provide Trump with funds to make payroll. In fact, if you look at the estimated net worth of Trump, according to Forbes (not Trump’s figures that include the value of condos that he has sold), if he had just put his inheritance in CDs, he would have about the same amount. That is, he has never actually made any money. Meanwhile, he has lost massive funds for the bond-holders that bought into his failed casinos. (None of which have ever turned a profit, despite several erasures of debt.)
· When I was a Citibank, Trump owed us in excess of the amount he inherited. It was in unsecuritized loans. I don’t think I’m betraying any privileged info when I say he actually had negative net worth. He claims he never went bankrupt. I guess that depends on your definition. He never filed for personal bankruptcy (although his companies have several times), because CB bailed him out. He was “too big to fail,” as CB would have lost the entirety of the loans and decided to carry him. CB made him sell his yacht and put him on an allowance. But, fact is, whatever he thinks about the later bailout of CB, CB bailed him out. So, why would we listen to his opinions on bailouts?
· Now, let us look at his positions. His position on the debt is to renegotiate. Hardly surprising as that has always been his position. Make a deal and then break it. But consider what this means. He is saying that the US should do what he has done many times, ask creditors to settle for 50 cents on the dollar. That is, tell foreign governments that he will not fully pay back loans. Forget that this is what third-world countries do, or that this could be considered an act of war, look at what it would do to our credit rating or respect in the world. To borrow money and fail to pay it back. OK, for those of you that hate all furriners, think of what it would do in this country. Treasuries are owned by states, cities, universities, charities, pension funds, 401Ks. Hey, maybe Trump is rich enough to not care. But, we are talking about screwing over hundreds of millions of people. Does he actually think he can manufacture trillions of dollars by renegotiating debt?
· Let us look at how he would deal with gas prices. He says that he would “demand” that OPEC change their prices to his demands. He thinks this is easy. So, I guess he wants to declare war with numerous other countries, including allies. And, he thinks he has the right to demand that a country like Saudi Arabia, a desert land with one natural resource, must change the price of that one resource until it is drained and they have nothing.
· Let us look at how he would govern. He has said that he would tell Congress what to do. Now, I know he is a “businessman” and unsuccessfully tried to patent the phrase “you’re fired,” but, if he thinks our three branch system of gov’t means that the president controls the other two branches and he can fire the congress and USSC, he is living in the wrong country.
· OK, let us look at his honesty. Already covered are his lies about his money-making. He is proud of his buildings, even though all of his casinos have lost money and faced bankruptcy repeatedly. (How can you lose money owning a casino? It’s a license to print money.) One California casino sued to drop his name because it was embarrassing. Of course he pulled money out of the casinos, even while his bond holders lost their shirts. Over and over. But let’s go further into his ability to tell the truth:
· Even in simple areas, he lies. Every ad for Trump World Towers claims that it is the highest residential building in the world at 90 stories. 90 stories. But, it has 72 stories. It is right in front of my window. I can count to 72. (Wiki and every other legit source also lists it as 72, and if you look at the Wiki article, my building is also in the picture.) Are there 18 hidden underground stories? No, there are three stories of garages. I watched (and listened to) the building being built for a year. I have the home and mobile phone numbers of the construction manager. (Manhattan is a smaller community than people might think.) But, it isn’t just this building – he lies about the floors in all of his buildings. Look up the building, then go count the floors. If you can’t tell the truth about something that is so obvious, that simply requires you to take a picture and count, how can you trust him about anything?
· Look at his general dealings and respect for neighbors. He bought a large estate in West Palm Beach. He got a good deal because it was close to the airport and there was much noise. Everyone knows that land near airports has less value. But, he then attempted to get them to move the airport to make his property more valuable. To actually move an airport built before his purchase because it bothered him. Failed.
· His embarrassing attempts to build golf courses in Scotland are funny. Some houses were in the way. He got the local council to condemn the beautiful properties that he wanted. This was the first time in all of Scottish history (which is very long) that a government taking of land for a private enterprise would have been successful. Land is sacred in Scotland and the history goes back far farther than ours. At first he was welcomed. When the forced taking of land was discovered, the population turned against him and he failed.
· His insecurity is also bothersome. In so many ways. Only one example is his constant need to talk about celebs. His building across the street bragged about the celebs owning units, even before it was completed. Who the frig cares? Like many NYC buildings, mine rejects most celebs because we don’t want paparazzi or silly fans hanging around.
· On the subjects of insecurity and general dishonesty, it’s silly, but his constant demands that his hair is real is funny. My GF goes to a doctor in the same building that includes the most respected hair-plug doctor in NYC. Guess who she has seen, more than once, coming from his office. As I said, Manhattan is a small world in many ways.
· On his buildings – he loves to brag about them. I was looking for a new place 15 years ago, and had my eye on one of Trump’s that is in a great spot and has fantastic views of Central Park. My RE agent refused to show it saying I shouldn’t even consider the building. Trump built the building, and sold it as a co-op. Residents don’t actually own an apartment. They own shares in the building and the rights to occupy an apartment. This can work. But, they also have liabilities for the corporation (building) in which they have shares. Trump pulled a fast one. He sold the land from under the building and then bought a 20 year lease. I know of no other case in the world where this has happened. The lease was up. This means that residents, that thought they bought a home, found out they owned shares in a building, but not the enormously expensive, upper East Side Manhattan land the building was built on. Well, you can’t move a skyscraper. So, the land holder can charge whatever he wants. And he did. The residents, as shareholders, each had to pay up to $10,000 a month to live in what they thought they had purchased. And, they couldn’t even sell. They would still be libel. I saw a penthouse with Central Park views that should have gone for several million put on auction for $200,000. No one bid.
· OK, let us look at him as “presidential” and diplomatic. Trump is well-known for a response to anyone that is critical. “You’re stupid – and you’re ugly.” He has sent this out to dozens of critics. One op-ed writer said he is the recipient of three “stupid and ugly” letters. Sometimes he adds “fat.” Seriously, do we want a president that uses a second-grade insult, on a regular basis, as a response to criticism?
· Now, let us look at his discussions of opponents. Trump said about Romney that he’s nothing as a businessman and he is worth billions more. Good grief, does he really think that’s what matters? When is he going to unzip his pants and pull out a ruler?

Hope I don’t get sued for this post. I can take being called stupid and ugly
Great post.
I couldn't have said it better.
Trump reminds me Governor Edwin Edwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QFIT View Post
my building is also in the picture
Do you own a building in Manhattan? If so, your blackjack business must be booming.

mmeyers
  #15  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:10 PM
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QFIT QFIT is offline
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Was FTC successful? If not, why not?

Yes. He was forced to stop the false advertising.

I don't think breaking a contract and trying to renegotiate is legally extortion. It may be unscrupulous, or it may be mitigated some by the type of people he is dealing with.

This is his stated position in book after book. He advises to purposely enter into contracts with the idea of later violating them. It is his “art of the deal” and he is famous for this among contractors. No, legally it probably cannot be proved as extortion. Just unethical and immoral.

In its October 7, 2007 Forbes 400 issue, "Acreage Aces", Forbes valued Trump's wealth at $3.0 billion.[74] His wealth went down and then up in the 2000s recession, but according to Forbes, Trump's wealth was valued at $2.7 billion in March 2011.[2] though Trump claimed it was much more.

No one knows. And, no one will know as it is all secret and he will never run because he would have to open his books. When I was at Citi, he publically said he was rich. He was bankrupt.

I've seen several interviews, some quite lengthy, and never heard this position on debt.

He stated this clearly in recent interviews. It is his "solution." He keeps saying that is is "simple."

Yes, it's their oil, but what do you call exercising monopoly power on those who need oil? I believe we need to become energy independent, but in the interim, the fair price should be set by "natural" supply and demand, not artificially created supply and demand. It's their right, but I would play hardball with them economically.

EVERY country makes the best deal they can. OPEC has nothing close to a monopoly. We have massive amounts of oil in the US, far more than we would need if we weren't so sloppy. But, our tiny percentage of the world population demands the use of most of the world’s oil. Haven’t they the right to get a decent price for their only resource, a resource that is limited? The US has the best piece of land in the world. Incredible natural resources, temperate climate, river systems, etc. The Saudi’s live in a desert and their water table is in its last dregs having shrunk to a small percentage of its size of only 20 years ago. To “demand” that they charge less is sick. Particularly when it is so cheap. We pay $1 for a gallon of oil, that takes a million years to create and a fortune to find and pull out of the ground. Pay the man for our sloppy usage and stop the threats.

He can't fire the Congress, but being an equal power, he can exert more pressure on them. Some Presidents have been successful doing this through appeals to the people, like Reagan. He also has veto power, and we all know how Congressmen and women like to give pork to their constituents.

Don't tell me, tell him. He is the one that thinks he can fire congress. And did they have to deal with a Congress that says no to absolutely everything, including those things they pushed themselves?

Name two politicians who always tell the truth. I said two, because I think Ron Paul may be one.

There are liars and there are those that lie so often they have no concept of the term.

I went to his website for the Trump World Towers. For a braggart, he doesn't even mention the height of the tower. He does mention that the condos vary from 10 to 16 foot ceilings, so that may explain a difference between "stories" and floors, I don't know.

This is a running joke in NY. The Wiki article even mentions it. And high ceilings are extremely common in Manhattan. In any case, his ads always lie about the stories in his buildings. How can you defend this?
  #16  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:54 PM
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aslan aslan is offline
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Was FTC successful? If not, why not?

Yes. He was forced to stop the false advertising.
Good.


I don't think breaking a contract and trying to renegotiate is legally extortion. It may be unscrupulous, or it may be mitigated some by the type of people he is dealing with.

This is his stated position in book after book. He advises to purposely enter into contracts with the idea of later violating them. It is his “art of the deal” and he is famous for this among contractors. No, legally it probably cannot be proved as extortion. Just unethical and immoral.

Interesting question. Is it illegal or immoral to enter into a contract with the intention of breaking it? The law allows it and defines remedies. At first blush, written contracts seem like they are designed for crooks. If he did that on a handshake, I'd find it morally reprehensible. But a contract is a piece of paper that says I'll do such and such and if I don't you have such and such legal recourse. There are some very wealthy individuals who do business on a handshake. To some it's folly; to others it makes sense.


In its October 7, 2007 Forbes 400 issue, "Acreage Aces", Forbes valued Trump's wealth at $3.0 billion.[74] His wealth went down and then up in the 2000s recession, but according to Forbes, Trump's wealth was valued at $2.7 billion in March 2011.[2] though Trump claimed it was much more.

No one knows. And, no one will know as it is all secret and he will never run because he would have to open his books. When I was at Citi, he publically said he was rich. He was bankrupt.

Forbes must have had some data to make his estimate.


I've seen several interviews, some quite lengthy, and never heard this position on debt.

He stated this clearly in recent interviews. It is his "solution." He keeps saying that is is "simple."

I've never read a Trump book. The concept of renegotiating is not new. That's what they do in bankruptcy court, only sometimes it isn't a negotiation, it's a court order. The holder of the debt does not have to agree. It sounds like one alternative, that is, renegotiate when you are broke, and thanks to Bush and Obama, we are broke. I agree that it should be a last resort, but I'd prefer that over the insane idea of continuing to spend ourselves out of debt. It isn't working; we must stop it.


Yes, it's their oil, but what do you call exercising monopoly power on those who need oil? I believe we need to become energy independent, but in the interim, the fair price should be set by "natural" supply and demand, not artificially created supply and demand. It's their right, but I would play hardball with them economically.

EVERY country makes the best deal they can. OPEC has nothing close to a monopoly. We have massive amounts of oil in the US, far more than we would need if we weren't so sloppy. But, our tiny percentage of the world population demands the use of most of the world’s oil. Haven’t they the right to get a decent price for their only resource, a resource that is limited? The US has the best piece of land in the world. Incredible natural resources, temperate climate, river systems, etc. The Saudi’s live in a desert and their water table is in its last dregs having shrunk to a small percentage of its size of only 20 years ago. To “demand” that they charge less is sick. Particularly when it is so cheap. We pay $1 for a gallon of oil, that takes a million years to create and a fortune to find and pull out of the ground. Pay the man for our sloppy usage and stop the threats.

My reading tells me that they do have monopoly power. I don't know what your definition is, but the government's definition is when you can set the price of a commodity you have monopoly power. Now, it's true we have great resources, but they are not extracted and available to the market. We should extract them. Drill, baby, drill. joke joke


He can't fire the Congress, but being an equal power, he can exert more pressure on them. Some Presidents have been successful doing this through appeals to the people, like Reagan. He also has veto power, and we all know how Congressmen and women like to give pork to their constituents.

Don't tell me, tell him. He is the one that thinks he can fire congress. And did they have to deal with a Congress that says no to absolutely everything, including those things they pushed themselves?

I don't think he thinks he can fire Congress. Sometimes you have to have a sense of humor. I think this is one of them. You can't take everything literally, even if it helps you make your case.


Name two politicians who always tell the truth. I said two, because I think Ron Paul may be one.

There are liars and there are those that lie so often they have no concept of the term.

I did not mention lawyers. But since you brought it up (albeit indirectly) I think most of our Presidents have been lawyers. (a little humor)


I went to his website for the Trump World Towers. For a braggart, he doesn't even mention the height of the tower. He does mention that the condos vary from 10 to 16 foot ceilings, so that may explain a difference between "stories" and floors, I don't know.

This is a running joke in NY. The Wiki article even mentions it. And high ceilings are extremely common in Manhattan. In any case, his ads always lie about the stories in his buildings. How can you defend this?

As I said, his Trump World Tower website does not. And if you measure a story as ten feet, maybe there're more stories than floors. I suggest this because you would want a comparable measure between buildings. I know that many buildings in NY have high ceilings, but I doubt that many high rises have them, especially ones over 20 floors. Not to apologize for Trump, but it is always best to try to put a good construction on what people say, at least, according to the spiritual rules of St. Ignatius.

Isn't everything is a running joke in NY? Don't New Yorkers love to ridicule the rich and famous? Anyway, I heard a lot of that in the Bronx, but New York has no monopoly on this trait either. DC is a pretty good example of another such place.

If you respond, you'll have the last word. We've kicked it around enough. I will keep in mind the things you've said, and see if further information over the course of time corroborates it. Thanks for the lively discussion.

Last edited by aslan; September 2nd, 2011 at 11:01 PM.
  #17  
Old September 2nd, 2011, 11:17 PM
tthree tthree is offline
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Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
fence sitter? lilly pad sitter?!!
i had the cahooneys to start this thread.
I can see you are hopping mad. You definitely have a leg up on Qfit. I hope you have the sense to get out of the water as it keeps heating up. The government doesn't think you frogs can tell the water is boiling. Well I hope Mach can take a Q from you and leap over the competition to sit atop that magical mushroom with the hookah smoking caterpillar. We can all have a seat at the Tea Party with that mad hatter ZG. Maybe there is still hope that the government will change it just won't happen until the next administration. Put an end to the Bush-Obama Era of government for the rich by taxing the middle class to subsidize welfare for the rich. Mach for president in 2012.
  #18  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 02:02 AM
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sagefr0g sagefr0g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tthree View Post
I can see you are hopping mad. You definitely have a leg up on Qfit. I hope you have the sense to get out of the water as it keeps heating up. The government doesn't think you frogs can tell the water is boiling. Well I hope Mach can take a Q from you and leap over the competition to sit atop that magical mushroom with the hookah smoking caterpillar. We can all have a seat at the Tea Party with that mad hatter ZG. Maybe there is still hope that the government will change it just won't happen until the next administration. Put an end to the Bush-Obama Era of government for the rich by taxing the middle class to subsidize welfare for the rich. Mach for president in 2012.
just me i guess, but maybe not, as great as democracy is, as much foresight as our founding forefathers had, it seems that the size and complexity of the state of affairs has gotten to the point to where something more is called for. it's beyond me, but Macho's post here (http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...&postcount=104) i think touches upon it.
aslan, imho, downplays to some degree the importance of charisma, or at least leadership, strength and honor. i dunno maybe we at least gotta like the guy that's gonna be the next President.
Mach for president in 2012.
  #19  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 04:27 AM
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zengrifter zengrifter is offline
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Originally Posted by sagefr0g View Post
i probably maybe won't vote for anyone in the upcoming Presidential election.
i mean heck who's there to vote for?
i nominate Machinist for President.

i vote for QFIT's software as the best there is....
Ron Paul / Ralph Nader - the Progressive / Libertarian Alliance ticket! zg

Ron Paul, Ralph Nader set to announce combined 2012 presidential ticket


Last edited by zengrifter; September 3rd, 2011 at 04:39 AM.
  #20  
Old September 3rd, 2011, 05:53 AM
tthree tthree is offline
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Default Straight shooting politicians

Aslan the other politician that doesn't lie Chris Christie. One thing is for sure Dick Chaney isn't a straight shooter. If he can shoot straight he needs to do a better job identifying his target. He is no Quayle.
 

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