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  #11  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 06:16 PM
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Default seems clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
No offense, but that makes about as much sense as saying the housing crash shows the problem of too much credit and capitalism.
In reality, neither one shows any such thing.
Greece has a large social net, correct
The Greek government borrowed to support it, correct
There's the problem
  #12  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 06:52 PM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
Greece has a large social net, correct
The Greek government borrowed to support it, correct
There's the problem

Love is blind, correct
Ray Charles is blind, correct
Ray Charles is love

You do realize that having a large saftey net has nothing to do with socialism, correct?
  #13  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Default so easy

If the Greek gov did not have a large social net no need to borrow. If the Greek gov could not borrow no large safety net

So if no large safety net, no problem
If no credit, no problem

They could not fund the safety net without credit, so the net wouldn't exist.

Last edited by blackjack avenger; October 3rd, 2011 at 08:14 PM.
  #14  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 08:43 PM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
If the Greek gov did not have a large social net no need to borrow. If the Greek gov could not borrow no large safety net

So if no large safety net, no problem
If no credit, no problem

They could not fund the safety net without credit, so the net wouldn't exist.
Your point has what to do with the failure of socialism again?
  #15  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 09:37 PM
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Default greek politics

The political parties are socialist, which probably means...
  #16  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 11:05 PM
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Jack_Black Jack_Black is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
If I owe you $10,000, you can claim it as an asset and borrow against it.
It is considered part of your net worth, as it is, in business terms, an account recievable.
If I default, now you can't claim it as an asset, and your net worth is reduced by the same amount.
It doesn't really matter if you can repay me or not. As long as your promise to pay me is viable, I can use your IOU as colateral on a loan from someone else.
This is a simple explanation of what is happening in Europe.
That's actually a simple explanation of what's happening around the world and in each financial market.
  #17  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Machinist View Post
Thanks shad,
That makes sense. But how much dough are we talking about here? Its greece, population of?? I mean........how big of a player are they in this game?? Do they even represent a tiny fraction of a percent of all money borrowed, lent, or shuffled about?
They just seem to small to make any ripples at all. Maybe I'm underestimating the country.

Machinist
btw, your welcome macho.

Shad is talking about how and why Greece is going to default. but you wanted to know why we should care if they default, and that I've already answered with the devaluing of the Euro, sending a ripple throughout the world economy.

also, Greece is about 30th largest GDP in the world.

Last edited by Jack_Black; October 4th, 2011 at 12:35 AM.
  #18  
Old October 3rd, 2011, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by blackjack avenger View Post
I agree & Greece shows the problem of to much credit
&
Failure of socialism
are you claiming that capitalism has not failed?

also, greece might go bankrupt because of poor debt management, cheap lending, and out of control spending. Not because of socialism.

ehhh also, does that not sound like the position that the US in currently?
  #19  
Old October 4th, 2011, 06:26 AM
Billy C1 Billy C1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Black View Post
are you claiming that capitalism has not failed?

also, greece might go bankrupt because of poor debt management, cheap lending, and out of control spending. Not because of socialism.

ehhh also, does that not sound like the position that the US in currently?
Nice to be reminded why I have stopped responding to the far left posters here----------they just don't get it.

BillyC1
  #20  
Old October 4th, 2011, 06:40 AM
tthree tthree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Black View Post
are you claiming that capitalism has not failed?

also, greece might go bankrupt because of poor debt management, cheap lending, and out of control spending. Not because of socialism.

ehhh also, does that not sound like the position that the US in currently?
I said my piece. I am not getting involved in the political BS. In a socialist country government spending is clearly tied to socialism. That is all I am going to say. The explanation of why Greece is going bankrupt above sounds like our country a few years down the road if we don't do something about the spending.

The Keynesian economists that got us into this mess are making the upper class rich. They recommend fixing our debt problem by more spending. Only an idiot would think the way to get out of debt is to continue to spend even more money than you bring in. All it does is make the recipients of the spending rich or should I say even richer. In the process it trashes the economy by cause more and more dead weight each year (unless you are a banker or other debt holder). It takes a percentage of the middle class and makes them poor and makes it more difficult for the poor to improve their situation. The whole time making a debt our great grandchildren will have to carry. People worry about special interests donating too much to candidates campaign funds. The problem is not these donations but the fact that people are so gullible to believe all the propaganda it generates. If a candidate starts slinging mud your first reaction should be, why doesn't he/her have anything good to say about himself? I am not voting for him/her. If the media obviously backs a candidate (they are supposed to be impartial) you should realize that candidate has been bought by the powerful men that own the media. If the media trashes or ignores the candidate you should realize this is someone they couldn't buy or control. Once the minds of the voters realize these things the special interests could donate trillions to a campaign and use their strong arm media to their hearts content but it would only hurt the owned politicians.

Look at the last Republican debate. The FOX poll that asked who you thought won had 73+% for Ron Paul and 23+% for Romney leaving essentially nothing for everyone else to split up. That poll lasted 15 minutes on the air before the powerful ownership made the call to have it pulled. I guess they don't own Ron Paul and are scared as h#ll that he will win and turn the country in the right direction. That is stop using government for lining the pockets of the rich and powerful at the expense of everyone else.
 

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