Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #1  
Old October 26th, 2011, 04:18 AM
Koz1984 Koz1984 is offline
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As you may know, I frequent this website regularly and have a keen interest in advantage BJ in Australia, particular Crown Casino. I have amassed a small team of like minded card counting APs, yet, as most of you would know, the BR required to undergo a major casino assault is quite hefty, given the steep minimums at Crown. My plea to anyone out there, or anyone that may know someone who is interested in this, is for an investor(s) to help fund a team against Crown Casino. Of course, as investors, I'd be willing to apportion at least 50% of the profits to you, with the rest going to players. I envisage this to be a properly formed team with proper accounting etc. If anyone is interested, PM me. We will go through details in private, including game plan etc. For any major kind of profits, at least $50,000 is required, however, if we get interest from several investors then the requirement per investor will obviously be less, therefore reducing the overwhelming financial burden.
  #2  
Old October 26th, 2011, 05:39 AM
tthree tthree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz1984 View Post
As you may know, I frequent this website regularly and have a keen interest in advantage BJ in Australia, particular Crown Casino. I have amassed a small team of like minded card counting APs, yet, as most of you would know, the BR required to undergo a major casino assault is quite hefty, given the steep minimums at Crown. My plea to anyone out there, or anyone that may know someone who is interested in this, is for an investor(s) to help fund a team against Crown Casino. Of course, as investors, I'd be willing to apportion at least 50% of the profits to you, with the rest going to players. I envisage this to be a properly formed team with proper accounting etc. If anyone is interested, PM me. We will go through details in private, including game plan etc. For any major kind of profits, at least $50,000 is required, however, if we get interest from several investors then the requirement per investor will obviously be less, therefore reducing the overwhelming financial burden.
No offense, but why would anyone want to bankroll a BJ team to assault one of the worst games on the planet? What are the playing conditions again?
  #3  
Old October 26th, 2011, 06:10 AM
Koz1984 Koz1984 is offline
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This is aimed at Australian investors, with Crown BJ probably being the most viable casino for advantage play, given its shoes games. Other Australian casinos are littered with CSMs. With an aggressive bet spread Crown can offer quite a healthy return.
  #4  
Old October 26th, 2011, 11:43 AM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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Originally Posted by Koz1984 View Post
This is aimed at Australian investors, with Crown BJ probably being the most viable casino for advantage play, given its shoes games. Other Australian casinos are littered with CSMs. With an aggressive bet spread Crown can offer quite a healthy return.

If you gather a decent BR, you could fly elsewhere for less than the cost of a single big bet.
  #5  
Old October 26th, 2011, 07:01 PM
CountDracula CountDracula is offline
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Isn't Crown littered with CSMs too? How many non-CSM tables are there now?
  #6  
Old October 26th, 2011, 08:29 PM
Koz1984 Koz1984 is offline
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Enough, the Monte Carlo, Maple and Teak Rooms are all shoe based.
  #7  
Old October 27th, 2011, 09:22 AM
gohiggins gohiggins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
If you gather a decent BR, you could fly elsewhere for less than the cost of a single big bet.
Shadrock makes a fair point. I'd have several questions as a potential investor for a Blackjack team such as your proposing - pertaining to Shadrock's point, what efforts have you made to seek more accommodating conditions. Cairns casino offers 0.5% HE against Crown's best (bar Mahogany) 0.65% game. If you are set on playing Crown, I'm curious as to why you haven't mentioned Mahogany as a possibility. Membership entry requirements aside, should you not aim to satisfy a similar interstate VIP program with another major city's High Limit room (Sovereign in Sydney for example/Club in Brisbane etc). With minimum BR requirements if you contact VIP marketing teams in other state you should be able to set up an interstate VIP program in one of these rooms - all of which, again, offer better games than the one you're proposing you play at Crown. I should expect your team be prepared to travel if a reliable income you plan to make from this.

Further, regardless of playable conditions - what is your approach? How many APs do you have trained currently? i.e. What is their level of skill - and not simply in-house technical training and ability, I am mostly concerned with Table-Time in live casino environments. Counting teams can only expect to achieve true efficiency (in terms of signalling, understanding casino hierarchy and procedures, team synergy and dynamics as well as coordinating practical arbitrage such as ensuring team line of sight and developing positive relationships with casino staff) and confidence with a particular level of 'on-the-floor' experience that cannot be taught.

If Crown is your primary target at the moment, based on the game they offer what size unit are your proposing? What is the effective spread for a $50,000 BR based on that unit? What is your MAX bet? What is your ROR? If your Spotters play Basic to maintain table control what is their projected loss? Based on team turnover, what is your projected hourly rate? How team hours will your sessions encompass? Similarly, what are your rostered individual man hours for the members of your team?

Importantly, what is your N0. value? And as an investor, what time frame is your team prepared to wait before breaking the BR?

In terms of contractual obligation, is my initial investment calculated as a percentage of the operating capital in which I own - i.e. will my share of your partnership compound as the BR grows? At what point, if any, may I voluntarily withdraw my capital contribution? What involvement will I have in decision making processes as a BR share holder in your partnership? Is your team using my BR contribution for wagering purposes only? OR, am I contributing to an overall working capital of the partnership, in that you are entitled to use said moneys as best you see fit to best profit the partnership? Is there an availability to request a third-party audit of the partnership's bookkeeping and records? What kinds of receipt and invoice evidence are available to me to accurately track the movements and use of my capital investment?

I have experience training, managing and operating efficient and profitable teams in Australia. I had success in coordinating external investors and satisfying these kinds of queries by them, with as much hard evidence as they would care to notice - and then some. I had not intended this post to question your abilities or own experience in managing your team, I'm sure you are quite confident in yourselves. But, I would expect you to be able to answer all of the above in detail - not only for myself, but for any and all potential investors which you're offering to here in an open forum. I don't think answers to any of the above would solicit any really personal details and as such I don't think there should be any issue with posting them here.

Feel free to ask of any further details of my queries here.

I'll also be the first to say I had read this thread and created an account here simply to reply to it, as I'm very curious as to the original poster's response. As I mentioned, I used to run counting teams in Australia and as such I still keep an eye out here just to keep up to date if need be.

Cheers.
  #8  
Old October 27th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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you should be having this discussion via pm not in open forum.
  #9  
Old October 27th, 2011, 11:37 AM
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zengrifter zengrifter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygruden View Post
you should be having this discussion via pm not in open forum.
I like it in open forum.
  #10  
Old October 27th, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Dyepaintball12 Dyepaintball12 is offline
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1. This should definitely be held openly so others can learn.

2. How would a 3rd party audit work? How would the auditors be able to tell how much was won/loss effectively? Seems easy to hide
 

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