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  #1  
Old November 4th, 2011, 10:10 AM
Ace007 Ace007 is offline
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Default Question on ratholing

When you guys rathole chips while playing rated and the dealer colors you up. Is it a good idea to cash in all your chips at the cage right away or save some of your chips for a different time? Do the casinos typically monitor your win amount at the tables and the amount you cash out to see if there is a discrepancy? Of course I know the best way to avoid all this is to play unrated, but at times I think it is good to play rated to blend in with the crowd and not draw attention right away.

If you do save your chips to cash out at a different time you will run into the same problem again with the amount that you cash out at the cage vs the recorded win/loss that you had at the tables for that session. Basically you will never cash out the same amount that you win or lose. If the casino monitors this it could be more trouble right? Even a ploppy would be put on radar I would think for this suspicious action.
  #2  
Old November 4th, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Sonny Sonny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace007 View Post
Is it a good idea to cash in all your chips at the cage right away or save some of your chips for a different time?
I generally follow these rules:

1) Never cash out immediately after a session.
2) Always keep a stockpile of chips for the casino(s) you plan to play.
3) Try to avoid large transactions at a single cage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace007 View Post
Do the casinos typically monitor your win amount at the tables and the amount you cash out to see if there is a discrepancy?
Not in my experience. I've never even had to give a cage employee my players card (if using one). When I first started playing the cage would sometimes call the pit to verify a cashout, but that can be avoided by following rule #1 above.

-Sonny-
  #3  
Old November 4th, 2011, 10:41 AM
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jaygruden jaygruden is offline
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Agree with Sonny here but I don't generally stockpile chips. I don't go to cashier right away and then when I do I'll cash some of the chips in at one window, go eat or walk up to a craps table and play a few on the pass line then cash out the rest (the rat-holed portion generally) at a different window.
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Old November 4th, 2011, 08:49 PM
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Coyote Coyote is offline
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Sonny is spot-on.

I have a large home range so I might not get to the same casino for six months or more. Therefore, a stokepile is not an option for me. At the end of my playing session, I will hit up some three card poker, or mini bacc for just a little bit and then cash out and hit the road again.

Haven't had a problem yet.

Regards,
Coyote
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Old November 5th, 2011, 03:50 AM
ringlejames ringlejames is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Sonny is spot-on.

I have a large home range so I might not get to the same casino for six months or more. Therefore, a stokepile is not an option for me. At the end of my playing session, I will hit up some three card poker, or mini bacc for just a little bit and then cash out and hit the road again.

Haven't had a problem yet.

Regards,
Coyote
I beg to differ. My FIRST TRIP EVER, I being a rather good player from the get go, ratholed like a you know what, squirreled chips away in my pocket, didn't cash out, kept literally hoards of chips in my room. stacks and stacks of red and a modest stack of greens.Pit would not leave me alone. My id was expired, they refused to let me cash out, I kept playing though. when I did color up all I had, I got a 15 minute wait to color up. Went up to a window with my friend Cashed out and showed them my expired id, and had to wait another ten while they confirmed with the pit the color up and cash out. Pit bosses had their eyes on me like hawks as well.

Now I just color up get with their system, cash out everything during the session and play by their system. Much smoother now a days.
  #6  
Old November 5th, 2011, 07:48 AM
Ace007 Ace007 is offline
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Thanks Sonny and everyone for the responses. Rule #2 and what Ringlejames said about stockpiling chips makes me nervous though. Would be terrible if they didn't allow the chips to be cashed in in the future. I have had a couple of scenarios where I have played unrated and they asked for my players card or told me i needed to get one or i wouldn't be able to cash out in the future. I guess overall you have to gauge your particular situation and casino. Probably has a lot to do with the frequency of play at a particular store as well.
  #7  
Old November 5th, 2011, 08:04 AM
paddywhack paddywhack is offline
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Default Catch 22 situation

My take on this whole situation. This scenario is for a place that you play on a very regular basis and are known to nearly everyone.

We rat hole to give the "appearance" that we've lost more or won less than the actual amount. The pit knows we bought in for this amount and color up or leave with that amount. So far so good. Cashing in gets acknowledged and recorded by the pit and generally coloring down a larger denomination chip does too.

Keeping a chip inventory and using those chips at the table on the next visit is where I have problems.

Most stores keep really good track of black or higher, greenies are the easiest to get off the table. So you either leave with a stack of greens or cash them in at the cage(s) in whatever way(s) you can to allay suspicion.

Say you leave with $500 in green. You go play the next week, check in at the table with the green, all's good dollar-wise except the computer doesn't show you've been playing there since last week. Do ploppies really take $500 in green chips home with them for a few days or a week? No, I think they'd probably be coloring them up to black and most likely cashing those suckers in at the cage.

Same $500 in green, go back the next week, and buy in with cash. So far so good. You've now lost your buy-in and now reach in your pocket for the $500 in green and proceed to lose them too. The pit has no idea you lost that additional $500, you're just putting chips on the table. They may or may not figure it out sometime when they inventory the tray, but can you be sure you've gotten credit for losing the amount you've actually lost? Not likely.

I don't like the added attention of the PC being called each time I cash in when I'm getting slaughtered in a hot shoe so I like the “idea” of having chips in my pocket to fire away as needed but I want to make sure that when I lose a bunch of money the pit knows I lost a bunch of money, not just what I bought in for.

So that's the dilemma. At a store I infrequently play why should I keep an inventory? At a store I frequently play, should I really keep an inventory?

Currently I don't, for either situation.

Last edited by paddywhack; November 5th, 2011 at 09:00 PM.
  #8  
Old November 5th, 2011, 08:13 AM
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Lonesome Gambler Lonesome Gambler is offline
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Keeping an inventory of cheques isn't just useful to avoid problems when cashing out:

- Coming to the table with several cheques in different denominations, casually taken out of your pocket in a way that suggests that there are probably more where those came from is an easy way to set up ratholing opportunities later, while also making it much more difficult for the pit to figure out what you came to the table with.

- If you're a higher-stakes player, bringing cheques with you can allow you to buy into a game for more than $10K without triggering a CTR. If you're in a great game and have already bought in for $9K cash, you should probably start planning your exit, which will cost you EV that you may otherwise be able to capitalize on if you're not dangerously approaching the CTR threshold.
  #9  
Old November 5th, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Cashing out a few hundred bucks ?

Nobody gives a rat's ass about it.
  #10  
Old November 5th, 2011, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringlejames View Post
I beg to differ. My FIRST TRIP EVER, I being a rather good player from the get go, ratholed like a you know what, squirreled chips away in my pocket, didn't cash out, kept literally hoards of chips in my room. stacks and stacks of red and a modest stack of greens.Pit would not leave me alone. My id was expired, they refused to let me cash out, I kept playing though. when I did color up all I had, I got a 15 minute wait to color up. Went up to a window with my friend Cashed out and showed them my expired id, and had to wait another ten while they confirmed with the pit the color up and cash out. Pit bosses had their eyes on me like hawks as well.

Now I just color up get with their system, cash out everything during the session and play by their system. Much smoother now a days.
Ok......?
What is it you're disagreeing with? Not that I really care, just curious.....
 

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