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Old November 11th, 2011, 11:17 AM
blackjacktilt blackjacktilt is offline
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Default Hard 17

I don't know if this has been discussed before but would it be possible for someone to run a sim to determine how many times hard 17 loses to 9, 10 and ACE? I would assume one hundred thousand hands would be sufficient, but I do not own and have never used the sim programs. I'm trying to determine if surrendering hard 17 (mostly on high counts of course) is more profitable than the conventional wave off.
I know BS tells us in the long term standing is the best way to act, but for some reason, I don't think so.
Maybe it's because I remember the hands I lose moreso than the hands I win
I would use rules such as the Northeast uses:
8 deck, h17, das, dbl any two, ls etc.
6 deck, s17 same as above.
Thanks in advance.
  #2  
Old November 11th, 2011, 11:26 AM
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PierceNation PierceNation is offline
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17 vs 9,10 or Ace is a losing hand period.

Standing as opposed to hitting on 17 keeps your losses to a minimum.

EDIT: It would be interesting to see the results of that SIM tho if anyone can oblige...
  #3  
Old November 11th, 2011, 11:34 AM
blackjacktilt blackjacktilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PierceNation View Post
17 vs 9,10 or Ace is a losing hand period.

Standing as opposed to hitting on 17 keeps your losses to a minimum.

EDIT: It would be interesting to see the results of that SIM tho if anyone can oblige...

I know, nothing like a mid to max bet with hard 17 vs. one of those 3 cards. In my mind, I'm thinking surrendering and standing are the same or maybe a little better one way. I'm requesting the sim to determine just that.
  #4  
Old November 11th, 2011, 11:42 AM
Freightman Freightman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjacktilt View Post
I don't know if this has been discussed before but would it be possible for someone to run a sim to determine how many times hard 17 loses to 9, 10 and ACE? I would assume one hundred thousand hands would be sufficient, but I do not own and have never used the sim programs. I'm trying to determine if surrendering hard 17 (mostly on high counts of course) is more profitable than the conventional wave off.
I know BS tells us in the long term standing is the best way to act, but for some reason, I don't think so.
Maybe it's because I remember the hands I lose moreso than the hands I win
I would use rules such as the Northeast us
6 deck, s17 same as above.
Thanks in advance.
There is no surrender index for 17 v 10. There is a reason for it. Grit your teeth and stand.
  #5  
Old November 11th, 2011, 11:56 AM
blackjacktilt blackjacktilt is offline
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Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
There is no surrender index for 17 v 10. There is a reason for it. Grit your teeth and stand.


I think gritting my teeth and standing would be the ignorant way to go about it if it's a possibility to determine the math behind it. Unfortunate for me, I am not the math genius that some of you are. Come on, all these great minds and you're telling me there is no index for this type of play. There has to be. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can think outside the box
  #6  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Freightman Freightman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjacktilt View Post
I think gritting my teeth and standing would be the ignorant way to go about it if it's a possibility to determine the math behind it. Unfortunate for me, I am not the math genius that some of you are. Come on, all these great minds and you're telling me there is no index for this type of play. There has to be. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can think outside the box
Don't ask for advice and then come back with some assinine retort. The reaon ther is no surrender in dex is because surrender is a losing play. The math is very simple. It is more profitable to stand then surrender. I'm not going to waste my time explaining further.

Now, if it's short term results you are after - then do what you want.
  #7  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:08 PM
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FLASH1296 FLASH1296 is offline
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If you win a hand over 25% of the time you do not surrender at a neutral count.

For your hard 17 over 75% of the time is extremely unlikely.

Capiche ?
  #8  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:16 PM
blackjacktilt blackjacktilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
Don't ask for advice and then come back with some assinine retort. The reaon ther is no surrender in dex is because surrender is a losing play. The math is very simple. It is more profitable to stand then surrender. I'm not going to waste my time explaining further.

Now, if it's short term results you are after - then do what you want.
Wow, I don't know how you took my response, but grow up.
  #9  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:17 PM
blackjacktilt blackjacktilt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH1296 View Post
If you win a hand over 25% of the time you do not surrender at a neutral count.

For your hard 17 over 75% of the time is extremely unlikely.

Capiche ?
Thanks Mr. Flash, at least you can come up with something for me to ponder.
I appreciate the response.
  #10  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Freightman Freightman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjacktilt View Post
Wow, I don't know how you took my response, but grow up.
I took as you being hard headed and stubborn, refusing to acknowledge the obvious, and without basic understanding of the surrender principle. If these observations are in fact correct, then it would be my recommendation you invest your bankroll with a financial planner as I don't believe this game is for you.
 

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