Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

  #1  
Old November 11th, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Tarzan Tarzan is offline
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Default Atlantic City's competition

http://www.northjersey.com/arts_ente...__bettors.html

Table game players are flocking to PA casinos for the better blackjack rules. There is no such thing as H17 in PA. You have a surrender option in PA. This is cut and dry, plain and simple. Meanwhile, AC casino's "think tank we are so spiffy dept." are wondering why they are losing table game players and are possibly totally clueless as to why this is happening. Allow me to help you out and give you a big hint. The competition right next door is offering a good game of blackjack in which the player's money lasts a bit longer. Okay, picture me in your boardroom doing a powerpoint presentation. It will go as follows with having some cool photos and some of the bullet points on the slide presentation as follows:

-Your game of blackjack licks sweaty rhinocerous balls compared to theirs.

-You wanted more money so introduced a higher "gouge" on the customers to clean them out faster. You wanted to bang 5-10% instead of just 2%.

-You assumed that 100% of your patrons were too stupid to figure out that H17 was not beneficial to them.

-You figured that other casinos offering a surrender option at their blackjack tables would not lure your customers away.

-2% of a huge volume of money cycling along steadily adds up to a lot more than 10% of ZERO volume of money cycling along.

-Even if you pump it up to a whopping 20% house advantage on a ZERO volume of business, the competitor doing the huge volume of business making the steady 2% still wins out and is more profitable, amazingly enough!

-(Slide presentation shows blackjack table full of players) Please make observations of this blackjack table in Pennsylvania.

-(Next slide presentation photo shows a blackjack table with a dealer standing there by himself admiring the architecture) Please take note of this typical Atlantic City blackjack table and tell me if you notice any unusual differences between the two.

Last edited by Tarzan; November 11th, 2011 at 11:57 AM.
  #2  
Old November 11th, 2011, 12:10 PM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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Which casinos are making the most profit?
  #3  
Old November 11th, 2011, 01:43 PM
Jersey 21 Jersey 21 is offline
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I dont get it. I can understand why APs hate AC for the obvious crappy rules but i really dont believe most normal players even realize it. Most BJ players dont even care to memorize Basic Strategy even though it brings the odds of the game almost even. So, do you really think that most people who play BJ really understand the difference between a H17 game and a S17 game? And is that the reason why AC has been going downhill?

No, the reason is that AC is tanking is because it's far away for most people in NY and North Jersey so they choose the PA casinos which are closer. From what I read on the general forum (Profit for the year), the card counters on this forum are making tens of thousands of profits from blackjack. So wouldnt it make more sense for AC to make the rules crappy to scare away card counters who are profiting so much from the game?
  #4  
Old November 11th, 2011, 01:50 PM
21forme 21forme is offline
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You'd be surprised.

Casino cut pen on a DD game (not AC, obviously) from 75% to 50%. All the ploppies stayed away. they kept saying things like "What a rip. You know all the good cards come out at the end..." After a month of an almost empty table, the casino went back to 75% pen.
  #5  
Old November 11th, 2011, 02:25 PM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
You'd be surprised.

Casino cut pen on a DD game (not AC, obviously) from 75% to 50%. All the ploppies stayed away. they kept saying things like "What a rip. You know all the good cards come out at the end..." After a month of an almost empty table, the casino went back to 75% pen.
This is an example of ploppies screwing themselves. How does that advance your arguement?
  #6  
Old November 11th, 2011, 03:05 PM
21forme 21forme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
This is an example of ploppies screwing themselves. How does that advance your arguement?
I'm not arguing about anything. My example is not rule-related, but i've seen that, too - ploppies refusing to play NDAS games, etc.
  #7  
Old November 11th, 2011, 03:10 PM
shadroch shadroch is offline
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I've been the only player at a 3-2 table while the 6/5 table next to me is packed. I've also seen the complete opposite. Personal observations are almost worthless.
  #8  
Old November 11th, 2011, 03:19 PM
bjcardcounter bjcardcounter is offline
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How can we spread this info - Twitter , FB? does anyone has access to the mailing list of the casinos
  #9  
Old November 12th, 2011, 01:39 AM
Jacob Jacob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcardcounter View Post
How can we spread this info - Twitter , FB? does anyone has access to the mailing list of the casinos
AC guys don't need to cry about AC casinos' bad bj rules. Here is a better way to get back at the evil empire: Find out what games or specialties you're really good at and go from there. Examples are:

1) Poker.
The "Padman" and Bishop have switched from bj to poker. Many more APs are seen in Poker Rooms of Borgata and Taj. Why not you guys?

2) 3CP.
Even the Godfather of AC has dropped bj and gone for 3CP. Hmm... I wonder why ?

3) Hopper
A notorious bj AP's is really good as a hopper, and he's still making it by hopping from tables to tables---playing non-negative shoes only.

4) Power of negotiation
"XYZ" has made big bucks by twisting casinos' arms for:

a) 20% loss rebates, and
b) "special" surrender option. According to a dealer, "XYZ" is able to "see" a good or bad card before he hits or surrenders his stiff hand ! That's a powerful play !

5) HCing
HCing in AC is for real, and I kid you not. For example, a team of holecarders has beaten ABC casino big bucks, and that "weak" dealer has been working there for decades!

Last edited by Jacob; November 12th, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
  #10  
Old November 12th, 2011, 02:02 AM
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Tarzan Tarzan is offline
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Default This is where you (and the casinos) are wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey 21 View Post
I dont get it. I can understand why APs hate AC for the obvious crappy rules but i really dont believe most normal players even realize it. Most BJ players dont even care to memorize Basic Strategy even though it brings the odds of the game almost even. So, do you really think that most people who play BJ really understand the difference between a H17 game and a S17 game? And is that the reason why AC has been going downhill?

No, the reason is that AC is tanking is because it's far away for most people in NY and North Jersey so they choose the PA casinos which are closer. From what I read on the general forum (Profit for the year), the card counters on this forum are making tens of thousands of profits from blackjack. So wouldnt it make more sense for AC to make the rules crappy to scare away card counters who are profiting so much from the game?
This assumption that all recreational players don't understand the ramifications of hard and fast rules, such as H17, 6:5, lack of surrender, etc. is wrong. Many of them do. Players converse with one another and are internet savvy. Anyone that plays blackjack overhears the various conversations at the table and every so often someone makes very valid points on house edge, favorable vs. unfavorable rules (right along with all the other various blackjack related conversations that are often erroneous). Obviously you were not paying attention during the powerpoint presentation... are you a casino employee?

The other assumption is that card-counters are making any considerable "hit" on the casinos. Most novice card-counters fail miserably, making the casinos lots of money and even the most formidable counters are only taking the "scraps" at best. Casinos spend 10 times or more the money to attempt to thwart card-counters than what the card-counters take. Card-counters are not the threat. The casinos true threat is the threat they are to themselves with greed and paranoia. Despite any card-counters in PA casinos (who are groveling for scraps and affect little), they are hauling it in, doing a huge volume of business while AC casinos are shutting down entire pits, laying off dealers. Jack up the house edge all you want but 5% of zero= ZERO, 10% profit on zero= ZERO and this is an amazing fact to have in a powerpoint presentation because most don't understand this but... even a 50% profit on zero STILL= ZERO!


Greed causes them to jack up the rules to make a higher percentage of profit but if your gross volume of business declines drastically due to the rule changes, this backfires and they destroy their profit margins. Paranoia causes them to not only spend huge amounts of money (more than they could possibly ever lose to counters) on countermeasures but to also cause encumbrances on the game itself that affect all players.

Keep in mind that maybe 1% of blackjack players out there are card-counters. Of those, only a tiny percentage of this group is actually successful in the long run. So when you babble about the handful of guys that actually turned a profit for the year in the casinos, try to think of what a tiny and insignificant amount of money this truly is in comparison to the volume of money the casinos generate. Also think of the number of novice card-counters that outnumber them 100 to 1 that lost horribly and are finding out the hard way that being an AP is not an easy task. This means that "it all comes out in the wash" and that casinos in fact make money from card-counters on the whole! Countermeasures? Are you kidding me? Welcome them with open arms!

Customers will already be lured away over geographical convenience, as was pointed out. To have a horrible game that is not competitive in addition to this sweetens the deal and insures your demise. This will lure away additional gamblers that lack any geographical convenience by going to PA casinos and will travel farther away in order to enjoy a better game.

Last edited by Tarzan; November 12th, 2011 at 02:18 AM.
 

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