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Old November 22nd, 2011, 01:34 AM
tulip tulip is offline
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Default Some helpful tips for anyone planning on playing

Hello, all. I'm an active AP and I want to share some tips and general guidelines for anyone who plans on playing in any of these casinos.

Lately, many casinos have become more aware of advanced AP tactics, and have adjusted some of their games and rules accordingly. There are still plenty of opportunities, and I know I speak for many when I say that we would all like to keep it that way.

I've spent a lot of time at the tables in many different places, and I feel as if my experience may help out those who are new to the game. This is a newer account, and as such I may not be able to receive private messages (Admin: this account is now PM-ready), but I'm in good standing with many posters on this forum, and I will be attempting to get in touch with them in the coming days so that I can get some feedback and advice so that we can make this as comprehensive as possible.

If you want to get in touch with me personally, please let me know in this thread and I'll get in touch with you via PM.

Please, if you have any questions or concerns or additions or any feedback of any kind, LET ME KNOW!

Now, like I said, the big casinos are aware of more advanced legal AP tactics. If you don't want to get your face on a flyer, you'll listen to what I have to say.
  • Be wary of heat that your fellow APs may have drawn
I can't stress this enough. When you're in a casino with other APs, you need to be VERY cognizant of the possibility of heat. The cat is out of the bag with the more advanced stuff, and we aren't the only ones who know it. YOU WILL GET HEAT. You WILL be followed by surveillance, and you WILL transfer heat to your friends and associates if you aren't careful. Remember the 2nd law of thermodynamics!

If you get backed off, you should NOT associate with your fellow APs before leaving the casino. Believe me, I've been guilty of this before, and it came back to bite me in the ass. I love war stories as much as the next guy, but if you're backed off or you get ANY heat at ALL, do NOT go and talk about it with your fellow APs. That is an absolute cardinal sin amongst professionals. I know that none of you are foolish enough to do this, so please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious. Nobody's perfect, I've made this mistake in the past. Don't do it. If you get heat (or worse, backed off), LEAVE. You don't want your face on a flyer, trust me. The good ol' days of inept Griffin goons are over. This is 2011. It's not the laughable baseball cap glamor shot it used to be.
  • Do not socialize in the casino!
Seriously. Don't do it. It will destroy the games, your playing ability, and your reputation. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again:

DO NOT SOCIALIZE IN THE CASINO.

Don't do it. There's plenty of places in town that have better drinks and a nicer atmosphere. I'll bring you there. I'll buy you a drink. We can swap stories about sweaty bosses and sloppy dealers after we're done smashing the tables. Do NOT socialize in the casino.

If you're in the casino, you're there to win. Save the small talk for the bar. Seriously, you'll get burned, and you'll take everyone down with you. Most venues have some sharp bosses in their employ, and they have nothing better to do than find out who you're there with. Be careful!
  • Don't be obvious!

It makes me cringe every time I see someone dip their head way low, or employ some other obvious tactic in order to make the play. If it's a tough game, MOVE ALONG! Believe me, there's greener pastures. Don't try to force it. If it's questionable, it isn't worth it. It's a five minute drive to the next place. Trust me when I say the grass really is greener at the other table.

If you're sitting wayyyyy back in your chair, or your chin is on the rail, or any other such tomfoolery, find a different location. Trust me, you don't have to do that sort of thing.

NEVER hit hard 17 or higher. And I don't want to hear the lame excuse "But ploppies" do it!". Bosses, dealers, and surveillance can "smell" the difference between a "ploppy" and when they're being had. It WILL come back to bite you! It's not enough to merely be able to pass as a casual gambler, doing things that some casual gamblers do. You must BE a casual gambler, not just "maybe" a casual gambler. Don't be an outlier.

Southpaw made a very good post, and rather than try to sum it up, I will quote it in its entirety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
Seriously people, if you're going to play these games, please play them exactly as described by Tulip. The worst thing is that the people who are going to ruin these games are probably going to be doing so playing for nickels. They will prevent the action of those who would have been able to hit the game for black action multiple times.

One thing tulip forgets to mention has to do with the relief shift.

Do not leave the table immediately as soon as relief arrives. If your BP (assuming you're bright enough to actually be using one!) is playing 2x100, his loss in EV per round played is only $1 (You should be able to figure out which game I'm talking about here based on the loss in EV). I'm not saying to not go take a bathroom break eventually during relief, but come on--don't be terribly obvious. You can also drop your BP's bets down during relief shift, too, but maybe only drop it as low as 1/4 of your BP's normal wager.

Also, I cringe every time I see a BP and his spotter leave the table simultaneously right as relief arrives. They pretend to not know each other at the table, but they will leave the table simultaneously as soon as relief hits and magically reappear as soon as the primary returns.

Again, at least these sorts are bright enough to use a BP.

And, finally a reiteration of one of Tulip's points regarding socialization in the casino. Please stop this! I cringe when I see a BP and a spotter who pretend to not know one another at the table only to find them socializing in the casino later, albeit sometimes on a different day.

On the way to the casino, if you and your BP ride together, drop one person off on the street. When leaving, pick your partner up off the street. Do not ride together if you pretend to not know each other in the casino!

Spaw

  • Don't gang-bang one dealer.

I apologize for the salacious sounding title, but it does have to be said. If someone comes across a good game, don't load up every single spot on the table with an AP. They aren't stupid anymore. The good ol' days are over, sadly. If you want to have a compatriot at the table with you, work out the method of communication beforehand. Do NOT try to come up with any sort of ad-hoc signals or anything like that. Trust me, I've walked down that road before, and it leads to lots of toasted money and torched games. I mean, come on now... it's not exactly the most inconspicuous thing in the world, is it?
  • Do not text out in the open!

Texting is fantastic. I'm a complete texting addict. I even pay the phone company a bunch of extra money every month so I can text to my heart's content.

Do not text out in the open. If you must text someone (which is fine), do so in the bathroom. If you can't, at least cover the screen with your palm or something like that.

This may sound insanely paranoid, but think of it this way: what kind of person applies for a casino surveillance job? Yeah, that's right. Between peering down women's shirts, what else do these guys have to look at? It wouldn't surprise me if they had their own drinking game based on what they see people text. They read texts for fun because they're bored and because they can. Keep that in mind before you whip out the iphone. These cameras are very powerful.

All of this can be summed up in one statement:
  • Be professional.

Whether you're a seasoned vet or a sharp hobbyist, professionalism is key. I know I'm not saying anything that you don't already know, but it does bear repeating.

If anyone has anything to add, please post in this thread and let me know.

I look forward to meeting all of you at the tables, and I hope you clear out some racks. Good luck, all!

Last edited by tulip; November 25th, 2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Clarified some things and added Sucker's and Southpaw's advice.
  #2  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 08:29 AM
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KenSmith KenSmith is offline
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I think this is an excellent post, so I didn't want to blast it as some requested. Instead, I sanitized it and moved it.

To the OP: I enabled your PMs. If you do not want to receive PMs at that username please use the User Control Panel to disable them.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:49 AM
Sucker Sucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulip View Post

If anyone has anything to add, please post in this thread and let me know.
NEVER hit hard 17 or higher. And I don't want to hear the lame excuse "But ploppies" do it!". Bosses, dealers, and surveillance can "smell" the difference between a "ploppy" and when they're being had.It WILL come back to bite you!
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:57 AM
tulip tulip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucker View Post
NEVER hit hard 17 or higher. And I don't want to hear the lame excuse "But ploppies" do it!". Bosses, dealers, and surveillance can "smell" the difference between a "ploppy" and when they're being had.It WILL come back to bite you!
Absolutely.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 11:21 AM
21gunsalute 21gunsalute is offline
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I'll ask it again since my post got removed: What does the city in question have to offer other than bad games, bad rules and a good chance of getting mugged once one steps outside of the casino, or even inside the casino?
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 11:31 AM
Machinist Machinist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
I'll ask it again since my post got removed: What does the city in question have to offer other than bad games, bad rules and a good chance of getting mugged once one steps outside of the casino, or even inside the casino?
Ho's

Machinist
  #7  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 11:39 AM
Sucker Sucker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
What does the city in question have to offer other than bad games, bad rules and a good chance of getting mugged once one steps outside of the casino, or even inside the casino?
Bad games & bad rules for card counters. Opportunities abound for advanced playing techniques. As far as the danger of being mugged; pay attention to your surroundings at all times & you'll be just fine. Everyone I've ever heard of who got mugged did SOMETHING wrong which could have prevented it had they been a bit less careless.
  #8  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Automatic Monkey Automatic Monkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sucker View Post
Bad games & bad rules for card counters. Opportunities abound for advanced playing techniques. As far as the danger of being mugged; pay attention to your surroundings at all times & you'll be just fine. Everyone I've ever heard of who got mugged did SOMETHING wrong which could have prevented it had they been a bit less careless.
If it's the place I'm thinking of, there are opportunities for counters too. It's a good place to learn, practice and use every kind of technique.

Aside from taking taxis front door to front door (possible, but too expensive for most) there is no way to completely protect yourself there, but awareness, good choices for parking, using the indoor passageways when possible and avoiding the bad habits (chatty, horny, drunk, high, slow) that make one a target will reduce the risk to negligible. AP's are among the few casino patrons that will both have 5 figures of cash on their person and be walking around outside the casino. It seems natural to us so it is easy to forget what big "whales" we are to a street criminal.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 02:38 PM
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Lonesome Gambler Lonesome Gambler is offline
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Interesting post. There are a lot of points made that should be taken into consideration by anyone interested in branching out into more advanced strategies. Here's something I would add:

When attempting to play games requiring advanced strategies, you must consider the consequences of the casino making the play. For card counters, the fallout from a backoff may simply consist of the inability to play on a particular shift for the next few weeks. As a result, many players moving over to advanced plays from basic card counting may not fully appreciate the consequences of their actions.

Many advanced strategies are not necessarily advanced in a technical capacity; they're fairly simple to understand and implement on a fundamental level. However, there are many nuances of advanced plays that will not become apparent to new players until much later in their careers, which can cause problems when a new player attempts to put their newfound knowledge to good use while ignoring (or at least not understanding) the big picture.

With many advanced strategies, if a play is made, a backoff isn't all you have to worry about. Here are some very likely scenarios:

- A brand new OSN/databse entry
- A formal 86'ing (casinos don't have a sense of humor about some advanced plays)
- Transferring heat to associates
- Games or even entire venues being fixed
- People losing their jobs

For casual or even serious recreational players, a backoff may be little more than a fun story to share with other APs later down the road, but the implications of strong games being burned out by well-meaning but inexperienced players run a lot deeper for those who count on game preservation for their livelihood.

Making advanced plays isn't just about memorizing charts and finding good game conditions it's also about understanding how the system works and knowing how to play the games and still live another day without having your name and face on all the latest flyers and mug book entries. While new players would do well to consider advanced plays in order to expand their repertoire and subsequently become better APs, they should make sure they fully understand the consequences of their actions before they jump into anything.
  #10  
Old November 22nd, 2011, 04:24 PM
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creeping panther creeping panther is offline
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Very interesting post there Lonesome.

So is what you are saying, don't do as I do, because I have special skillz, and if you attempt it you will face terrible tragedy including losing your job, etc, etc.

Sooooooo,,, just leave the high edge games alone so me and my friends have them all to ourselves.

Ya, that sounds just about right

CP
 

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