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Old November 27th, 2011, 07:30 PM
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aslan aslan is offline
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Default Playing Two Hands

I was wondering just how much playing two hands with aggressive wonging out reduces variance. All I am going on is anecdotal evidence, but it seems to dampen variance quite a bit for me. The most often occurrence is winning one hand and losing the other. Intellectually, I understand the possibility of doubling my losses with the rare occurrence of continually losing both hands. In practice, this has never happened, but with only a 100 or so hours of playing in this manner, I know I don't have enough information to go on. Has anyone run a sim on this scenario? I generally play 6-deck, S-17, sometimes LS, sometimes not, and occasionally 8-deck, S-17 with LS.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 07:37 PM
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I don't have a simm for ya but I played two hands and took several breaks during bad counts. It worked out nicely for me.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 06:14 PM
tthree tthree is offline
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I like playing two hands as well but I have definitely lost both hands in the same round on many occasions. It does happen. I had a run where all I got was 2 hands of 15 versus a ten and they didn't offer surrender. All the ploppies started telling me I should go to the roulette table and play 15. I switched tables when the count tanked and the same thing happened. Again a different group of ploppies said I should bet 15 on the roulette table. Luckily some good opportunities came at the end of the session and more than made up for the nightmare shoes. Thankfully the count was low and I caught some cards to split some of the hands for an aggregate push for the round so the nightmare shoes weren't as bad as it could have been.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 06:58 PM
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sagefr0g sagefr0g is offline
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http://www.gamemasteronline.com/Arch...hands-P1.shtml
maybe look up covariance.

Last edited by sagefr0g; November 29th, 2011 at 07:03 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2011, 07:28 PM
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Actually, playing two hands increases variance, but increases Ev as well, and the net result is benefical (in terms of EV/VAR)



In that way, you have to see at which point is convenient to spread to 2 (or more) spots, because the contramesure here is the "card eating".


Is a point in which the "card eating" doesn't affect to much the Hourly Ev.


I wrote a custom version of PowerSim to yield covariance and, with a spreadsheet I figured that this point is which represents about an Ev of about 1%.


Here take a look if it works for you aslan.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WEBXLWR8


Saludos!!
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Old November 30th, 2011, 03:53 PM
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aslan aslan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvaro View Post
Actually, playing two hands increases variance, but increases Ev as well, and the net result is benefical (in terms of EV/VAR)



In that way, you have to see at which point is convenient to spread to 2 (or more) spots, because the contramesure here is the "card eating".


Is a point in which the "card eating" doesn't affect to much the Hourly Ev.


I wrote a custom version of PowerSim to yield covariance and, with a spreadsheet I figured that this point is which represents about an Ev of about 1%.


Here take a look if it works for you aslan.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WEBXLWR8


Saludos!!
I could not open your sim file. I guess I need something installed to read it.

The variance may be increased, but it seems the opposite. I feel much more comfortable playing two hands than one when I am underfunded-- maybe I'm just lucky. I do wong out, but I also do play a lot of non-plus-EV hands.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 10:10 AM
winnawinna winnawinna is offline
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Aslan I have mostly played two hands and have over 800 hours doing so. I have experienced both great positive and negative variances. My CVCX sim with two hands, states the ROR doubles than playing with one hand. Variance also increases which makes sense. I now ususally play one hand and like it much better. i have also doubled my min bet but my BR in replenishable.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnawinna View Post
Aslan I have mostly played two hands and have over 800 hours doing so. I have experienced both great positive and negative variances. My CVCX sim with two hands, states the ROR doubles than playing with one hand. Variance also increases which makes sense. I now ususally play one hand and like it much better. i have also doubled my min bet but my BR in replenishable.
That's a lot of hours. I did not realize how risky my strategy was. I recall Qfit saying (I think-- I don't mean to put words in his mouth) that playing two hands was slightly more beneficial than playing just one hand. I am surprised that variance increases, since my gut was that one hand tended to offset the other. Does it actually increase, or does it just speed up, since it seems equivalent at first blush to playing one-handed at twice the speed?

My bankroll is also replenishible, but I may decide not to replenish it if I meet with disaster. I may change back to one hand, based on your remarks. I know that I have thrown caution to the winds by choosing $25 min games over $5/10/15 min games. Maybe now with about 17 consecutive winning sessions it's time to cut back and beat the variance gods who were lurking in my future. No telling what diabolical ends they had in store for me!
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Old December 6th, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Playing two hands while wonging is 100% essential. Since, by definition there will be other players, it's best to play two hands from a card-eating pespective, it helps you get more action in high counts.

Playing two hands also enables you to wager more at the same risk of ruin. So, for example, you could play $100 or 2x$75 and have the same ROR but higher EV. OR, you could lower ROR with the same EV by playing 2x$50.

In any case, my opinion is that, when wonging, if there are two spots, it should be STANDARD PRACTICE for any counter to play two hands.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
Playing two hands while wonging is 100% essential. Since, by definition there will be other players, it's best to play two hands from a card-eating pespective, it helps you get more action in high counts.

Playing two hands also enables you to wager more at the same risk of ruin. So, for example, you could play $100 or 2x$75 and have the same ROR but higher EV. OR, you could lower ROR with the same EV by playing 2x$50.

In any case, my opinion is that, when wonging, if there are two spots, it should be STANDARD PRACTICE for any counter to play two hands.
But are you talking about wonging in and out or simply wonging out? In the case of the latter, playing two hands at a lessor amount (80% of max bet) in plus counts and two hand at min bet in negative counts is not the same as spreading to two hands only in plus counts and betting 80% max on each. I think in the former case, variance must be greater, although it does have the card eating advantage.

I'd be interested in your comments. Thanks.
 

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