Surrender Indices for H17

[tthree]

Isn't surrender 17 v A a BS play for H17? I am still able to avoid this horrible rule. If I wanted to play it I would have to drive by many stores that offer only S17 in 2 states to get there.

[21gunsalute]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

Norm,
I know you said you were taking a break from posting,
but I thought you might be interested in this question.

Is there a glitch in CV demo for H17, 7/8, DAS, LS, which
appears to say to not late surrender 17 v A or 8,8 v A?

According to Professional BJ, page 261, 17 should be
late surrendered against A at TC +2 or lower,
and 8,8 should be surrendered vs A at TC between -5 and +4.

He doesn't have indices listed for those 2 situations for the Felt Count either.

[21gunsalute]

Originally Posted by tthree

Isn't surrender 17 v A a BS play for H17? I am still able to avoid this horrible rule. If I wanted to play it I would have to drive by many stores that offer only S17 in 2 states to get there.

Are you saying that surrender is a horrible rule?

[tthree]

Originally Posted by 21gunsalute

Are you saying that surrender is a horrible rule?

No silly H17.

[21gunsalute]

Originally Posted by tthree

No silly H17.

Ah.

[21forme]

Originally Posted by tthree

Isn't surrender 17 v A a BS play for H17? I am still able to avoid this horrible rule. If I wanted to play it I would have to drive by many stores that offer only S17 in 2 states to get there.

Yes, it is a BS play. The index is to LS when TC<+2. 0 is < +2

I used to abhor H17, but I've gotten used to it. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of H17 games that are better (i.e., higher SCORE) than S17 games. There's one H17 shoe game I've played with a SCORE in the 100 range.

[mikeyd]

Originally Posted by tthree

Isn't surrender 17 v A a BS play for H17? I am still able to avoid this horrible rule. If I wanted to play it I would have to drive by many stores that offer only S17 in 2 states to get there.

Yes. And isn't surrender 8,8 v A also BS for H17?

[BrianCP]

Originally Posted by tthree

I am still able to avoid this horrible rule. If I wanted to play it I would have to drive by many stores that offer only S17 in 2 states to get there.

Lucky you, there isn't a casino in my state with a S17 game.

[BJgenius007]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

Right. Page 93 also has surrender 17 v A index at +2 or lower.
It also has index for surrender 8,8 v A as 4*, but based on
table on page 261, I think you ignore this if you can both buy
insurance and surrender, and thus should surrender at -5 or higher.
Do you read this the same way?

No, you read it wrong.

17 vs A on H17 Game with LS available:

Surrender if TC is equal to or less than +2
Stay if TC is greater than +2


17 vs A on H17 Game with no surrender option:

Hit if TC is less than -5
Stay if TC is equal to or greater than -5

There are two odd hands, 17 v A and 8,8 v A on H17 ,because these two have reverse indexes. For S17 game, it is much simpler since there are no additional reverse indexes for surrendering these two hands. You always use Basic Strategy to slit 8,8 v A, and hit 17 v A when TC is super negative (less than -6).

[BJgenius007]

Originally Posted by mikeyd

Yes. And isn't surrender 8,8 v A also BS for H17?

Yes. For 8,8 v A on H17 game,

Surrender if TC is negative, 0, +1, +2, +3.

Split if TC is +4 or higher.

You see, if you don't know True Count and choose surrender, you will be right most of the times. The frequency of TC +4 or higher is slim.