Cross-Post: Spanish 21 odds?

[RavenSlay3r]

I posted this on another "name not to be reveiled" forum the other day but am always intrested in more comments. Litterly about 1/3 of the tables in AC are Spanish 21 as of two weeks ago. So if you have some good info, pleas enlighten us!


Original Thread: http://www.bj21.com/boards/free/free...gi?read=143317

Text of original thread:
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I've been trying to learn all I can about blackjack, following a recent spring-break trip to Atlantic City. I've read several lists of games to prefer, or avoid but seen no mention of "Spanish 21".

When I was in A.C. i saw "Spanish 21" in every casino. It's blackjack with lots and lots of twists. I think the number-10 cards are removed, but there is surrender, "match-dealer-card" bets, and maybe insurance. Also some interesting pay-off tables.

I'm sure it would need it's own B.S. tables, but it might just be a bad deal all around.

Has anyone heard of this game - and whats the general consensus on it?
And also whats the consensus on "Match-dealer-card" bets? should it be played similar to insurance or not at all? (or always?)

Thanks
Raven
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/*End Cross Post*/

[KenSmith]

The always helpful Wizard of Odds has done a lot of work on Spanish 21.
Check it out here:
http://www.wizardofodds.com/spanish21

Michael Shackleford (aka The Wizard of Odds) has produced an amazing site should be among every serious gambler's bookmarks.

He also has a new book out that I haven't seen yet. I think it's called Gambling 102, and it is published by Huntington Press. I've never added a book to the bookstore here without reviewing it first, but in this case I plan to make an exception. I am so confident in the team of Shackleford and Anthony Curtis' Huntington Press that I plan to order stock this week, sight unseen.

[rookie789]

The Wizard of Odds states Spanish 21 is a better bet for the player than traditional BJ using his strategy charts, if the dealer stands on S17 or redoubling is allowed but he ignores card counting in his evaluation. Although most Reno casinos offer Spanish 21, I have never played it assuming it was another funky game like "Super Fun 21" blackjack which only increases the house odds. Is there a counting system for Spanish 21 or is his advise for basic strategy players only.

[RavenSlay3r]

I got busy and havent' had time to read Wizard of Odds in depth since this post, (on the todo list) but i'm guessing you can just start with an adjusted running count because there's no 10's.

For example in a six deck game with hi-lo count:
4 tens * 6 decks = 24.

Your running count automatically starts at -24 after the shuffle.
Combine this with the correct B.S. tables optimized for Spanish 21 and you should be ok.

Does anyone know different?

[ACWhale]

Does anybody out there know about any good counting systems for spanish 21? I don't think its feasible to start at -32 for an 8 deck shoe (as if doing a hi lo blackjack count) and count back to 0, because it will be positive EV for the player before hitting 0 due to favorable rules. Estimating how much to increase your bet is difficult when you're at, say -4 with 2 decks left. Ive thought of a couple solutions:

1. Start at 0 and count normally, but subtract the breakeven true count from the true (I estimate this at between 1 and 2 true count units based on Sanford Wong's .5% EV per count figure)

2. Eliminate 2's from the count entirely. I am not sure whether they have more or less relative value for the house than in blackjack, but they are definitely the least dangerous low card to be left in the shoe.

Any thoughts on spanish would be appreciated.

Thank you,

-Jay

[SoBu Mike]

I have played a LOT of Spanish 21 over the past few years. It was big in Las Vegas when I went there in the late 90's. I noticed it was rare when I went last year. I won more often than I lost playing it. The general consensus with most players is that you hit 12 no matter what the dealer is showing. And 13's unless 5 or 6 is showing. With the 10's removed, The dealer does not bust as much and you need to make hands.

The other thing about the game I didn't see mentioned is that you get paid different odds for other stuff. 5 card 21 pays 3:2, 6 card pays 2:1 and 7 or more pays 3:1. 7-7-7 pays 3:2 and 2:1 if it is suited. Same goes for 6-7-8. Also, you can double down after any number of cards. So if you start with 5, hit a 2, then hit a 4, you have 11 and can still double. All of these "perks" are there to make up for the 24 missing 10's. It's fun

I do not recommend playing "match the dealer". 12:1 payout for a suited match but the odds are 24 to 1. 3:1 payout for offsuit but the odds are 6 to 1. Many people play the game just for that because 12:1 is big payout at once, but many poeple lose too or the game wouldn't be offered.

Mike