Front loading/First basing question

[Ace of spades]

Is front loading/first basing still legal and if so, is it still possible or are the dealers better trained to make sure they don't flash the hole card. Anyone know any traits of a sloppy dealer? Thanks.

[BJStanko]

If dealer accidentally exposes her hole card of course you should use that information to your advantage. I mean hell yeah!
Dealers are well trained and they don't make mistakes like that very often. But if you see dealers hole card USE IT TO YOUR ADVENTAGE.

I read in some books, ...."You know if dealer makes mistake and give you more money while paying you off after winning hand you should correct him or her and give back money that do not belong to you". Bull .... .
They can shuffle your advantage away any time they want in hand held games, and now you have to be honest to them. Be ruthless!!

Many players will probably disagree with me but I don't care! I play blackjack to make money!

[KenSmith]

Yes, front loading and first basing are legal advantage plays. In Nevada particularly, this issue has been decided in court and has legal precedent.

[techster]

Can someone explain these terms? Thankyou

[KenSmith]

These are both terms indicating that a player at the table is able to catch a glimpse of the dealer's hole card during the dealing of the hands.
Obviously that information gives the player an advantage over the game.

A 'front-loading' dealer is one that tilts the card in a way that exposes the down card slightly when 'loading' the hole card under the up card.

First-basing indicates a situation where a player can glimpse the dealer's hole card when the dealer peeks under a face card or ace for blackjack.

[techster]

I see. Thanks, Ken.

[russellj93]

I am taking a Blackjack dealers course at our community college. We do cover dealer mistakes and mistakes are made by new dealers (they are called "break ins") as well as experienced dealers. As we all hope to become advantage players, we do need to take every edge we can get. Some of the books I have read say that dealer mistakes are part of that edge.
Russell

[smokey]

Most casinos I've been to have a device on the blackjack table in front of the dealer that reads the dealer's hole card. One has a light....green means no ace or ten and red means the dealer has blackjack and the hand is automatically over. The other device I've seen is some type of optical device that the dealer has to peek into to read the corner of the hole card. I believe these two devices greatly reduce "front loading". What are these devices actually called and exactly how do they each work? Thanks. p.s., if I saw a dealers hole card there's no way I would say anything!!

[Mikeaber]

There was a thread on the "LVA" forum about Plaza. One poster stated that he had heard that the reason that Plaza switched some of their Pitch Double Deck Tables to Double Deck shoes was because of dealer "mistakes" that cost the casino $100,000 in a one week period of time. Actually, he said it was the Las Vegas Club that invoked that change but Plaza is owned by the same people so they made the change also. As far as I recall, the LVC and Plaza use Peekers (the mirored optical device) for checking the hole card for Ace or Face.

Because of the Peekers, I have to assume that the dealers causing the problems were flashing their second card as they dealt it or were flashing it as they tucked it under or when they flipped the up-card.

The Plaza doesn't have a huge turnover in dealers. I've been playing against the same two dealers for the past year out there and they've been there much longer. I have to assume that it was dealers at LVC that caused the concern if new dealers were guilty of allowing first basing or front loading.

But for whatever reason, I am glad they have gone to the double deck shoes. When they did this, they also switched the game to a face up game! All cards are exposed on the deal except for the dealer's hole card.

[neemo6]

Bringing a thread back from the dead. Are these techniques primarily for pitch games or can the apply to shoe games as well?