a layman's musing.....

[sagefr0g]

i often wonder if there are advanced techniques that have not yet been publicly shared. one has to figure there are. so two questions:
1. are there such 'secret' techniques?
2. how does one get the 'skinny' on them?

best regards,
mr fr0g :D

[Automatic Monkey]

There are. On the old cardcounter.com board, I got busted a couple of times for thinking out loud and accidentally hitting on something being used by pros that is not in the public domain. One had to do with sequencing and one had to do with CSM's.

So probably the best way to gain access to such techniques is to create them yourself! This forum is a good place to work on such things because we can easily send private messages to people we trust.

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

i often wonder if there are advanced techniques that have not yet been publicly shared. one has to figure there are. so two questions:
1. are there such 'secret' techniques?
2. how does one get the 'skinny' on them?

best regards,
mr fr0g :D

Yes there are a few things being done out there that are not readily known by the general card counting public. Unfortunately for most, without an inside connection or affiliation with some of the true pros who use such methods, you're forced to figure them out on your own. There is an unwritten rule among most pros that if you really are a true advantage player, then you must find a way to learn them. Whether that be by earning the trust of an elite player enough to be taught, or understanding the game enough to figure it out on your own. Either way its not easy. I mean would a magic trick be a trick at all if everyone knew how to do it.

I do offer you this to think about. As most counters know you expect to make money as the count drops correct? What if you didn't have to wait for only positive counts to do it in. The advantage is there whether it drops from 0 to -9 or +15 to +6. The only problem is in the first example you will have no money out there to take advantage of this. You must figure out a system to recognize your advantages in situations that previously thought negative. You do this and you just stepped up your game to a new level. It can be done. Good Luck with it.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

Yes there are a few things being done out there that are not readily known by the general card counting public. Unfortunately for most, without an inside connection or affiliation with some of the true pros who use such methods, you're forced to figure them out on your own. There is an unwritten rule among most pros that if you really are a true advantage player, then you must find a way to learn them. Whether that be by earning the trust of an elite player enough to be taught, or understanding the game enough to figure it out on your own. Either way its not easy. I mean would a magic trick be a trick at all if everyone knew how to do it.

I do offer you this to think about. As most counters know you expect to make money as the count drops correct? What if you didn't have to wait for only positive counts to do it in. The advantage is there whether it drops from 0 to -9 or +15 to +6. The only problem is in the first example you will have no money out there to take advantage of this. You must figure out a system to recognize your advantages in situations that previously thought negative. You do this and you just stepped up your game to a new level. It can be done. Good Luck with it.

Are you referring to shuffle tracking?

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by ScottH

Are you referring to shuffle tracking?

Well yes it would be a form of shuffletracking but not in the sense of a positive or negative nrs track, it would be more in the lines of sequencing.
When done correctly you count the shoe down normally, unlike most effective shuffletracks where counts are changed based on what cards are cut into play.
But with attention to detail you're able to take advantage of significant drops in the shoe with little regard waiting for the big count to make the big bets. Although that is still a good time to wager more, its not the only time, so you're not a slave to the waiting game. And you're no longer betting like a typical counter so its almost impossible to detect, even with mindplay systems. I'll leave it at that for now, I hope you're getting the idea.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

Well yes it would be a form of shuffletracking but not in the sense of a positive or negative nrs track, it would be more in the lines of sequencing.
When done correctly you count the shoe down normally, unlike most effective shuffletracks where counts are changed based on what cards are cut into play.
But with attention to detail you're able to take advantage of significant drops in the shoe with little regard waiting for the big count to make the big bets. Although that is still a good time to wager more, its not the only time, so you're not a slave to the waiting game. And you're no longer betting like a typical counter so its almost impossible to detect, even with mindplay systems. I'll leave it at that for now, I hope you're getting the idea.

Bojack

When I write my book (I have been slowly working on it), "Tales from the Felt", the stories about taking the Mindplay machines at the Hilton for a mid 5 figure amount in a short period of time by myself and a partner, will make you smile.

ihate17

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

...... I mean would a magic trick be a trick at all if everyone knew how to do it.

my thoughts exactly when i posted. just had to put it out there anyway.

Originally Posted by Bojack1

........you're forced to figure them out on your own. There is an unwritten rule among most pros that if you really are a true advantage player, then you must find a way to learn them...........
I do offer you this to think about. ................ Good Luck with it.

thank you, a little luck is what i'm always hoping for.
i've had thoughts along these lines before and posted such on another forum. no response, perhaps with good reason.

very best regards,
mr fr0g :D

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by ihate17

Bojack

When I write my book (I have been slowly working on it), "Tales from the Felt", the stories about taking the Mindplay machines at the Hilton for a mid 5 figure amount in a short period of time by myself and a partner, will make you smile.

ihate17

We trounced the Hilton just this past year. It had been my first visit in over 5 years, and I must say the fools who banned me in 01', welcomed me with open arms this past time.
I wish you good luck with your book, sounds like I would really enjoy it. I just hope when it comes out I'm retired from full time play. Its such a double edge sword, the more good books revealing techniques in advantage play come out, it helps players get better advantages, but at the same time helps casinos in tracking down the users of them.

Just ask Al Francesco What he thinks of the supposed great Ken Uston and his backstabbing book he wrote right in the middle of the heyday of their playing days. Regardless of what the general blackjack world thinks about Uston, I and quite a few much more distinguished than myself, believe if it wasn't for the elite company he kept, and his ego driving charisma, nobody would even know his name. He is known for his outlandish character more than any actual winning at blackjack. His claim to fame is writing about playing strategies that weren't his, and counting systems he copied from much better players. Basically he was nothing more than a tattletale looking to make a buck on those he called friends.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Bojack1

We trounced the Hilton just this past year. It had been my first visit in over 5 years, and I must say the fools who banned me in 01', welcomed me with open arms this past time.
I wish you good luck with your book, sounds like I would really enjoy it. I just hope when it comes out I'm retired from full time play. Its such a double edge sword, the more good books revealing techniques in advantage play come out, it helps players get better advantages, but at the same time helps casinos in tracking down the users of them.

Just ask Al Francesco What he thinks of the supposed great Ken Uston and his backstabbing book he wrote right in the middle of the heyday of their playing days. Regardless of what the general blackjack world thinks about Uston, I and quite a few much more distinguished than myself, believe if it wasn't for the elite company he kept, and his ego driving charisma, nobody would even know his name. He is known for his outlandish character more than any actual winning at blackjack. His claim to fame is writing about playing strategies that weren't his, and counting systems he copied from much better players. Basically he was nothing more than a tattletale looking to make a buck on those he called friends.

I would never really reveal actual methods in a book, which will probably make the book a failure. The book is more about the strange, wonderful, scary, and especially funny things I have either been part of or witnessed while in casinos. I make a study of people and the casino enviroment is the mother lode for this subject. So a big win will be the sideline and without much explaination of how it happened.

An uncle knew Uston and used to call him the egomaniac that just might ruin things for everyone else.

ihate17

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by ihate17

I would never really reveal actual methods in a book, which will probably make the book a failure. The book is more about the strange, wonderful, scary, and especially funny things I have either been part of or witnessed while in casinos. I make a study of people and the casino enviroment is the mother lode for this subject. So a big win will be the sideline and without much explaination of how it happened.

An uncle knew Uston and used to call him the egomaniac that just might ruin things for everyone else.

ihate17

I personally think a book about blackjack experiences and stories would sell better than any book on just plain strategies and playing methods. Kind of like "Bringing Down The House". That book appealed to a mass audience because it had interesting and exciting stories, and very little detail in how to play an advantage game. The only people really interested in the fine details of advantage blackjack are the very small percentage of them that actually practice it. I think the general public would be bored by too much math and statistics, but would eat up stories of the money, nightlife, insane characters, and the cat and mouse game between the player and the casino. So good luck with it you seem to have the right premise. And if you ever want any extra stories I've got tons of them you can have free of charge.

As far as Ken Uston goes he did as much to hinder advantage play as to help it. I personally am sick of the fairytale of his greatness. Playing with big money means nothing if your losing bigger. The name of his book should have been "How to make a small fortune................out of a big one."