illustrious 18 and Zen? (Kevin Blackwood read this!)

[RavenSlay3r]

Source: Kevin Blackwood, "Play Blackjack like the pros"

Ok on pg. 69 he throws the Illustrious 18 at us "for six-deck shoes". I can't find it now, but i'm assuming this is for hi-lo.

On page 85 we see it again for "Hi-Opt I" under the subtitle "Shoe-Strategies" even though he is recomending Hi-Opt for single/double deck and Hi-Lo / Zen-count for shoes.

On pg. 86 top: "The same strategy will also work with hi-Opt II." He then compares Zen-Count to Hi-Opt 2.

My question is are we to follow this chain, and use the pg. 85 Illustrious 18 with Hi-Opt 2 and Zen-Count? If not where are the correct Illustrious 18 for Hi-Opt 2 and Zen-Count and do THEY share a strategy?

Kevin, I think you could re-visit this page and clairify it for the 2nd edition.

In the mean time, i'm switching to Zen for AC. 6-Deck, (more-or-less at Kevin's suggestion) so I could use those numbers now if anyone has them!


Thanks,
Raven


PS.
This book is great so far, and I would highly reccomend it as a FIRST black-jack book. I also own "Beat the Dealer" and "Proffesional Blackjack". While less technicaly-detailed this is a MUCH easier to follow introduction, and more relevent to modern play. Great writing style too! ;-)

If anyone is bookshopping - read this first; the others will burn you if your new, especially "beat the dealer"... trust me! :-P

[lagavulin62]

raven,

can't answer your question because I don't use either strategy.(at least not now) but I agree that it is a good read. in the early 80's while in the service I got my first exposure to casinos and blackjack. I bought beat the dealer and was fascinated by the idea of card-counting. but after reading the book, like so many people I didn't think I could ever count cards, it all seemed too difficult to me. then I bought a small pocket book explaining casino games in england. it had a small section on counting, a simple true count system, but they didn't go into enough detail for it to be useful. so until about 6 months ago I totally forgot about counting. and now I can't get enough info of it all. there are so many good books out now. I wish they had this many back then. I have all the books you mentioned and just received blackbelt in blackjack, bj attack, and unbalanced zen II. I've been working on my speed with the zen numbers. quite a bit different than ko but making progress. when I get to where I can keep up with the running count at the same speed as I count ko then I will learn all the indexes. but that may be longer than I expected. how are you progressing?

mike

[Kevin Blackwood]

Raven,

The Ill 18 numbers in my book are for HI OPT I, but are fairly similar to Hi Lo. I do not include an Ill 18 numbers for either the Zen or HI OPT II count, but there is a larger matrix covering those counts in the Appendix.

[rollem411]

Alright I've been searching for all the indices for the Zen count system mostly the I18. Every thread on here refers to hi-lo. Does anyone have this information or does the difference not really matter that much?

P.s. I had to dig this thread out so any help is good help...for the most part.

[jack,jackson]

Originally Posted by rollem411

Alright I've been searching for all the indices for the Zen count system mostly the I18. Every thread on here refers to hi-lo. Does anyone have this information or does the difference not really matter that much?

P.s. I had to dig this thread out so any help is good help...for the most part.

http://www.bjrnet.com/archive/BlackjackTherapy.htmChapter 11

Hope this helps

[rollem411]

I love you jack...

[rollem411]

Actually, I am having a lot of problems trying to read the table. I understand where the index numbers are, but it's not saying what the correct play is. For example I'm reading it like this...

My hand A4 against Dealer 2, I would hit?

My hand A4 against Dealer 6, I would double?

My hand A4 against Dealer 5, I have no clue because it says -12. Does this mean I double at any TC greater than -12? It just doesn't seem right.

I have to be doing something wrong..

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by jack,jackson

http://www.bjrnet.com/archive/BlackjackTherapy.htmChapter 11

Hope this helps

Or this -
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/...nt_Indices.htm

[jack,jackson]

QUOTE=rollem411;59152]Actually, I am having a lot of problems trying to read the table. I understand where the index numbers are, but it's not saying what the correct play is. For example I'm reading it like this...

As far as I can tell your reading it right.

My hand A4 against Dealer 2, I would hit?

Yes, if it has a letter in lieu of a number, this means that this paticular hand is not contingent of the count,therefore you will always hit. I refer to these plays as mandatory plays.

My hand A4 against Dealer 6, I would double?

Yes,again,this is a mandatory play,therefore always double!

My hand A4 against Dealer 5, I have no clue because it says -12. Does this mean I double at any TC greater than -12? It just doesn't seem right.

Exactly! Double anytime the TC is -12> or higher!
At first they didnt make sense to me either. Thats because the higher the count the more likelihood of catching a ten. This may be true, but thats the reason we only soft double on a dealers bust card. The emphasis of making these plays(A2-A5) vs 2-6 are based on the dealers chances of busting. Thats why the higher the count the more profitable these hands become, and the more likely we are to double.
A6-A9 differ somewhat in nature. When you double these hands the emphasis is now making a pat hand.
Just remember the higher the count the more profitable doubling on ALL softhands become.

[rollem411]

I'm checking out the Zen indices from Snyder's book from the link above. Thanks Jack for yours, but I found the other site a bit easier to understand...plus it includes DAS...which is the play in AC.

I know these indices are just approximations and that is why many times they are different and it doesn't matter because it is estimation, but I just need to understand something.

It says to: My hand H16 stand against a dealer 9 with TC >= 8

It says to: My hand H16 stand against a dealer 10 with TC>=0

The approximation seems a little too drastic here.

Also, I was in a situation before when dealt 15 against a dealer 8 when the count was probably about a +9 or so. The "proper" index play says to always hit.
My thinking then was if I take the card I am going to bust, but at least I have a chance of winning if I just stand...hoping the dealer may hold something other than a 9 or 10 because then I know he would bust on that next card. I just don't want to start learning the index plays if I'm doing something wrong.