Red 7

[Whatsmytotal]

It seems that the red 7 count is just too simple to actually be worthwhile...how much of an advantage is actually gained by using it?

[BJLover]

if you use red 7 with the 6 main strategy changes,you will be taking advantage of 80% of ALL blackjack counting systems gains.
So says Arnold Synder in blackbelt in blackjack.
hi-lo, red 7 and KO are very close in performance.

[Renzey]

"Red 7 with six basic strategy changes is worth 80% of full scale balanced counting with many basic strategy changes".

Arnold Snyder made that basic statement back in 1982, in the original edition of "Blackbelt in Blackjack" when the Red 7 was a relatively new and untested concept. Since then, with the development of blackjack analysis software, it has been shown to be an understatement. Unbalanced counts, if done right, are darn near as good as balanced counts -- on the computer. In the real world, after deck estimation errors and conversion roundoffs with balanced counts -- who knows?

[LeonShuffle]

Yeah, that's how I see it too. Red7, KISS, KO, all more than worthwhile for shoe games.

[golfnut101]

further to what you recently posted, is their too much emphasis on which counting system, and not enough on being razor sharp with it ? How much practice time is honestly put into it by the average hopeful, before they go into a casino and get lambasted because of errors ? Who honestly cares about losing .2% of your EV because their is a more powerful system I should be using, when, in fact, we lose because we make errors, not the system. Bojack had an excellent post on this very topic once, saying that the MIT members he knows cannot believe all the mistakes people make when he does seminars, and that most of us overrate our abilities as counters. For most of us who are playing nickels to quarters, I say get real and practice your tail off with a simple system, then determine where you are at. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by golfnut101

further to what you recently posted, is their too much emphasis on which counting system, and not enough on being razor sharp with it ? How much practice time is honestly put into it by the average hopeful, before they go into a casino and get lambasted because of errors ? Who honestly cares about losing .2% of your EV because their is a more powerful system I should be using, when, in fact, we lose because we make errors, not the system. Bojack had an excellent post on this very topic once, saying that the MIT members he knows cannot believe all the mistakes people make when he does seminars, and that most of us overrate our abilities as counters. For most of us who are playing nickels to quarters, I say get real and practice your tail off with a simple system, then determine where you are at. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

i think you make a good point. the thing about errors IMHO is they are not so much a big deal if they are rare events, but if errors are consistant then your bottom line starts getting hurt.

[newbie]

Originally Posted by Whatsmytotal

It seems that the red 7 count is just too simple to actually be worthwhile...how much of an advantage is actually gained by using it?

They all seem to do the same thing to me. I think we have to keep track of aces to make it accurate.

What is this system with keeping track of fives? I can't find nothing on it online. Something about 5's are good for the house and bad for us? Anybody know of a good website or book that explains this 5's system?