Richard Canfield counting method

[newbie]

Anybody use this system? What is the purpose of not counting the 8's and 2's?

[zengrifter]

Most of the advice is antiquated. As for your question, counting 3-7 vs. 10-A is more or less equal to HiLo. zg

Balanced Level-1 Counts (2-A)

HiLo: 11111 000 -1-1
ITA: 11111 10-1-1-1
UPM: 01111 100 -1-1

[newbie]

Thanks, but what is the purpose of not counting the 2 and 8's? What does it do? I see why they don't count the Ace. Because they want to keep a side count of it. But the 2 and 8's?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by newbie

Thanks, but what is the purpose of not counting the 2 and 8's? What does it do?

The eights are pretty much useless from an EOR perspective so it doesn't make sense to count them. I don't know of any card couting system that includes the eights. He probably ignores the twos in order to keep the count balanced. Not counting the twos does make it less accurate though. Also, counting the nines hurts it a bit as well.

-Sonny-

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Sonny

The eights are pretty much useless from an EOR perspective so it doesn't make sense to count them. I don't know of any card couting system that includes the eights. He probably ignores the twos in order to keep the count balanced. Not counting the twos does make it less accurate though. Also, counting the nines hurts it a bit as well.

-Sonny-

Uston APC counts the 8's, I think. It does increase the insurance correlation but I don't think that count makes any sense overall.

[newbie]

But the dealer and ourselves can get a alot of hands with 8's left in the deck. For instance, if the dealer has a 10 showing, then a 3 underneath. And he pulls that 8, then he wins. I would think the 8 can be counted as either a high card or a low card. If there alot of 8's left in the deck, then that can go against us. Unless we keep a running count of the 8's. But that's a little too much for a newbie.

Not sure if I should continue to learn this Canfield system or go for the unbalanced knockout. I think all the systems keep the same count at the end, it just depends on what is more easier for the person to understand. Right? I mean they all end at a zero count at the end if they are balanced.
Not that it matters much with playing against 6 decks. I heard some casino's use 60 decks. :-( What ones use 60 decks? Does anybody know?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by newbie

I think all the systems keep the same count at the end, it just depends on what is more easier for the person to understand. Right?

That's pretty much true, but a more accurate system will identify more positive situations and it will more accurately express how big they are. In the end you are usually raising your bets at the same time but the more accurate player will raise his bets slightly more frequently and by a more appropriate amount. As you said, the best system is the one that you can use the easiest and fastest.

-Sonny-

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by newbie

I would think the 8 can be counted as either a high card or a low card. If there alot of 8's left in the deck, then that can go against us. Unless we keep a running count of the 8's. But that's a little too much for a newbie.

7s are even more ambigous than 8s (ie, 'bi-valuate') and there are "multi-parameter" systems that adjust for relative densities of these cards... BUT you need not worry about them. zg

[newbie]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

7s are even more ambigous than 8s (ie, 'bi-valuate') and there are "multi-parameter" systems that adjust for relative densities of these cards... BUT you need not worry about them. zg

Why don't I have to worry about them? If they are in the deck, then I have to worry about them. What systems adjust for these ambigous cards such as 7 and 8's like you said?

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by newbie

Why don't I have to worry about them? If they are in the deck, then I have to worry about them.

You don't really have to worry about the eights because they do not change the house edge. If you remove an eight from the deck it will not increase or decrease your advantage. That is why systems like HiLo, which don't count the 7-9, are still very powerful. Card counting is all about estimating the player's advantage at any point inthe deck/shoe. Cards that don't affect the player's advantage much can often be ignored without losing much accuracy.

Counting the 7-9 may help increase the accuracy of your playing, but that is not as important as the accuracy of your betting.

-Sonny-