A joyous lack of heat

[Kaiser]

Ok, I've read numerous stories here of people being backed off, getting heat from pit bosses, etc. But do you ever find yourself in a situation where you can pretty much be as blatant as you want with your counting?

Last night I had a few drinks and couldn't get my foggy brain to keep the count accurately. So I started counting along under my breath with my hand over my face. Then when the round was over and I got a new running count total, I'd pick a hockey player to help me remember the number. So starting out with Gordie Howe (a 9, doing KISS III with 6 decks). If after a round the count went +3 we're not at Jarome Iginla. I'd sit there mumbling "Iginla.... yeah, Jarome Iginla...".

Of course after a while that wasn't even working too well, because there was so much talking and joking going on at the table (and the hot waitress did not help). So I just started making a pile of chips to keep count. I coloured up and got 5 $1 chips so I could do this. I'd have 2 $5's and 2 $1's for my count of 12. If it went up 3, I'd take away the singles and add another $5 chip for a 15 count. I did this all friggin' night and didn't catch even a whiff of heat for it. Hell, I'd look at my stack, count that it was now up to 25 and curse that I had been betting small, then I'd go from min to max bet on the next hand.

There are pit people cruising all the time there, and they'd stop to watch the dealer for a minute, but no one seemed to mind the drunk guy constantly flipping chips around in front of him.

I'm thinking of trying a pen and paper next time.

[Preston]

Wow. I just posted something similar to this called "the on table abacus"

It worked really well. Just I think the system should be honed a little bit.

we use white chips to symbolize "10" in the count. so 1 white chip and 5 red means the running count is "15" For neg counts we'd put a green chip in the stack.

Worked out really well and we made some $$ last night.

[positiveEV]

Alcohol is a bad idea >.<

What I would do is take stuff like Virgin Pina Colada so it looks like an alcoholic beverage when it's not and then I would act like a drunk guy, seems like an awesome camouflage to me and it would not decrease your counting abilities.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by asiafever

Alcohol is a bad idea >.<

What I would do is take stuff like Virgin Pina Colada so it looks like an alcoholic beverage when it's not and then I would act like a drunk guy, seems like an awesome camouflage to me and it would not decrease your counting abilities.

Nah, what you need to learn how to do is to count while drunk! Declining free drinks is -EV!

[ihate17]

Over the years, for many reasons I have found casinos where you can count with no problem depending upon your bet size. I tend to call it tolerance level. Every casino that is not a sweatshop has a tolerance level and also every casino has many pit types who could not identify a counter even if you counted out loud.
In Vegas for instance there are many casinos where they do not rate red chip players and ignore lower level green chip players. You can spread in some of these places up to a couple of hundred and unless you have attracted their attention, you might be able to play unabatted for days.

Finally, writing about those places should only be done in the way you did it. You never ever want to embarrass a casino or their pit when they have let you play, so you keep the name to yourself. That way it has not been brought to their attention and you have not invited a heard of counters to visit them and ruin the game.

ihate17

[Cass]

Originally Posted by ihate17

Over the years, for many reasons I have found casinos where you can count with no problem depending upon your bet size. I tend to call it tolerance level. Every casino that is not a sweatshop has a tolerance level and also every casino has many pit types who could not identify a counter even if you counted out loud.
In Vegas for instance there are many casinos where they do not rate red chip players and ignore lower level green chip players. You can spread in some of these places up to a couple of hundred and unless you have attracted their attention, you might be able to play unabatted for days.

Finally, writing about those places should only be done in the way you did it. You never ever want to embarrass a casino or their pit when they have let you play, so you keep the name to yourself. That way it has not been brought to their attention and you have not invited a heard of counters to visit them and ruin the game.

ihate17

It seems like some places are fine as long as you dont bet too much. If you are playing in a high stakes area that the typical bets are 25-$100 and you are playing all black everyone's eye is on you and you will not last long. IF your average bet sizes are near what the other players are then you can last a long time. It is just when you are really puting out the unusual big bets that the heat comes down!! It is nice if you are the low baller on the table then the pit doesnt even notice you. From my recent experiences I almost wonder now if I would have been better off playing for less EV, but lasting a lot longer on the games without being barred. It is difficult for me because I have to travel far to each casino i'm forced to play long sessions, and it just isnt worth my time if i cant get a good EV.

[Cass]

Originally Posted by ScottH

Nah, what you need to learn how to do is to count while drunk! Declining free drinks is -EV!

a few weeks ago I was at home, and i had drank a few drinks. I would guess i was around .12-15 BAC. I tried counting down a deck of cards and found that i could do it with 100% accuracy in about 20 seconds;the same as when im sober!

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Cass

I almost wonder now if I would have been better off playing for less EV, but lasting a lot longer on the games without being barred. It is difficult for me because I have to travel far to each casino i'm forced to play long sessions, and it just isnt worth my time if i cant get a good EV.

Cass: You may be coming to the place I came to about ten years ago. I had been increasing my bankroll for 15 years and my bet levels along with it. With max bets of well over $1,000 heat became a constant companion. Sure I developed a great act but they always watched me and my best sessions tended to be on a high limit table where I was the lowroller. It was hard to find enough games to play and the thing is I really enjoy playing and knowing that I can play that game better than the house offering it. That was more important to me than just making money and I make enough money in my business.
So I took more than half of my bankroll and made strong downpayments on a couple of rental homes. I dropped my max bets to generally 2 hands of $500 and landed up enjoying playing just as much and finding that I could play at more places. Since then whenever the bankroll grew, I bought another piece of property or invested it in something else.
I know the blackjack books talk about increasing your bankroll but there may be a point of diminishing returns (or at least there was for me) based upon being able to play in fewer places for fewer hours.
Finally, I think my point is I also do not do this just for the money but for the satisfaction that I have mastered the game well enough to take money from the casinos even though I might be able to take more.

ihate17

[SystemsTrader]

Originally Posted by Kaiser

Ok, I've read numerous stories here of people being backed off, getting heat from pit bosses, etc. But do you ever find yourself in a situation where you can pretty much be as blatant as you want with your counting?

Absolutely! I recently played in a casino with so many asian ploppies rediculously throwing their money away the casino isn't even concerned about counters. I was able to set my personal record of using a spread from 1-60. I would bet $5 at the neg counts all the way to $300 at the high counts and then right backdown to $5 at the start of the next shoe. I got no heat from the casino but a lot of attention from other players at the table who would make comments after the start of a new shoe when I would hit a blackjack and they would say you should of had your $300 bet out instead of $5!

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by SystemsTrader

1-60.

Wow. I can't even fathom.

What kind of chips do you even keep for that, reds and greens and blacks? I stress out over changing chip color even once when ramping bets.