very intresting first counting experience

[bluewhale]

okay so i had my first counting experience today and had to write...

first off, it wasn't the first time i've counted.... the first time i tried i completely f*cked it up and had to rely on my friends bet size to determine the count. the second time i tried backcounting and was waiting on for a TC of 5 (yeah i know, lol) and surprise surprise i spent 3 hours and didn't play a single hand.

i was red chipping with a ramp of 5, 10, 25, $50.
so anyway several crazy things happened...
first off i initially tried wonging 15 min tables (the max of any table in the sino was 100), so i wonged 1 and made 15 bucks.
next i plop onto a 5 min table and start cracking away, i figure i can just sit there going through shoes with my spread (PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong because this will cost me), i leave a couple times for washroom breaks and going to check on friends at bad counts.
then i sit at the same table my counter buddy is sitting at.... theres this ploppy on the table who keeps getting pissed off when i stand on 16 vs 10 saying its a bad move (count was +) and i didn't take his bust card. anyway, at the start of the next shoe this dude says "can i see the burn card." so the dealer anounces it, and shows a Q. then, HERES THE INTERESTING PART, he says "negative 1." my buddy and i look at each other and we're thinking "****!" also the pit boss is RIGHT there, she actually hears him and says "what did you say" he then repeats it and follows up by saying that if anyone can count an 8 deck shoe they have more brain power than him. lol. the pit just laughs cause the dude was clearly terrible.

anyway, so we get hit pretty bad after a couple hours of being plopped on this table (mainly betting min). so my friend is down 100 (20 units), a quarter of his BR, so hes obviously a little pissed. so we go to the washroom and i'm like, enough of this bullshit, we're wonging the 10-15 tables. so we go there, we just ignore heat completely, just backcount, enter, backcount enter, so yeah, half an hour later, i make 170, he makes 300 (he finishes 200 up i finish 70 up for the day).

another couple things... our stay at the casino was a whopping 6 hours! cause another friend who drove played poker and he likes long sessions. so does anyone have any idea of how to kill time? and don't say gamble (ie video poker or some other low HA game)

also on the 5 table with my friend... at one point i was min betting and he was betting 15-25. this got me worried, doubting myself, and wondering what the hell was going on. later on i found out that my friend thought that if 5 decks were dealt (8 deck shoe) you had to divide by 1 (cause 2 decks were cut out and they don't count). so yeah, that obviously through his true count way off.

wow, this got pretty long, so if you reach the end, props to you.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by bluewhale

...he says "negative 1."...the pit boss is RIGHT there, she actually hears him and says "what did you say" he then repeats it and follows up by saying that if anyone can count an 8 deck shoe they have more brain power than him. lol. the pit just laughs cause the dude was clearly terrible.

Hmmm, a terrible player who thinks he's a card counter, huh? Was this at Casino Arizona?!

Great story by the way.

Originally Posted by bluewhale

so does anyone have any idea of how to kill time?

Sure! This is a perfect time to work on your observational skills. Get a drink, relax and watch some of the other players in the casino. Look at how they change their bets and why they do it. Watch how much they add/remove from their bets and try to find their patterns. Listen to the stupid things they say to the dealer and each other. Remember all of he silly little superstitious rituals they do. These are the people you must impersonate. When you suddenly jump from a 1-unit bet to a 4-unit bet you want it to look like a ploppy move. You want to look like an idiot who just got a bright idea or who recognized a "pattern" or "trend" in the game. When you suddenly jump back to your 1-unit bet you have to look like you are restarting your progression system from the beginning or that you think your winning streak just ended. This is the type of cost-free cover that you will need at the local joints that you will be playing frequently and/or for long sessions. Once the pit gets to know you as a loser they will let you get away with just about anything.

-Sonny-

[mdlbj]

Were you sure you were not suppose to hit on that 16? if you are playing with the I18 then maybe.

I18 Dealer stands on 17

Stand 16 VS, Else surrender on 9, 10, A
7 +10
8 +8
9 +5.5
10 +0.5
A +8.5

Sounds like you are still a little overwhelmed With counting at the tables. Start again in your practice sessions vocally calling out the count and saying how much you should bet on this hand.

Your ROR with a small bank roll is almost a sure bet. With you guys doing some very aggressive wonging that may have helped. Be sure you are at a level of confidence with your counting, bet sizing and cover before you play again.

After the losses and your last win there, how much overall did you take home or leave there?

I know where you are at, we have all been there. Just practice a bit more and if your back counting a 15 dollar table, mine as well make it a 25-50 or 100 dollar table. Best of luck.

Oh, to burn time, go play poker with your buddy. I love nothing better than to play a no limit tourney between sessions to unwind. The so called pros get pissed. Lots of fun.

[bluewhale]

Originally Posted by mdlbj

Were you sure you were not suppose to hit on that 16? if you are playing with the I18 then maybe.

I18 Dealer stands on 17

Stand 16 VS, Else surrender
7 +10
8 +8
9 +5.5
10 +0.5
A +8.5

uh o... cause the index i memorized said to stand 16 vs. 10 at any positive count (ie even a running count of +1). can someone post the ill 18 cause i REALLY don't wanna learn the wrong index plays.

Originally Posted by mdlbj

Sounds like you are still a little overwhelmed With counting at the tables. Start again in your practice sessions vocally calling out the count and saying how much you should bet on this hand.

Your ROR with a small bank roll is almost a sure bet. With you guys doing some very aggressive wonging that may have helped. Be sure you are at a level of confidence with your counting, bet sizing and cover before you play again.

After the losses and your last win there, how much overall did you take home or leave there?

I know where you are at, we have all been there. Just practice a bit more and if your back counting a 15 dollar table, mine as well make it a 25-50 or 100 dollar table. Best of luck.

i took home $70 profit (really 72.50, but 2.50 is a momento).
bet sizing and ROR is really not a concern for me. i figure it is MUCH more important to get the money out when you have the advantage. i have heard way too many stories about ppl counting and thinking they are at an advantage but not spreading enough and actually being behind.
my BR is well over 10K (none from BJ) so my ROR, is pretty non-existent seeing as how i'm not betting more than 50-100.[/QUOTE]

[mdlbj]

Originally Posted by bluewhale

uh o... cause the index i memorized said to stand 16 vs. 10 at any positive count (ie even a running count of +1). can someone post the ill 18 cause i REALLY don't wanna learn the wrong index plays.

i took home $70 profit (really 72.50, but 2.50 is a momento).
bet sizing and ROR is really not a concern for me. i figure it is MUCH more important to get the money out when you have the advantage. i have heard way too many stories about ppl counting and thinking they are at an advantage but not spreading enough and actually being behind.
my BR is well over 10K (none from BJ) so my ROR, is pretty non-existent seeing as how i'm not betting more than 50-100.

[/QUOTE]

You were right on the stand then.

You betting unit is 18 @ 10k or floored to 15. You are absolutely right about getting the money out when you have the count. The more the better.

If I'm not burning my own cash, I will play table max @ a positive count. Yet, I have that confidence in my play.

If ROR is not a concern, play at the 100 min tables, build your act then tell them your feeling lucky and put you money out when you have the advantage.

[EasyRhino]

1-10 spread is enough for theoretical profitability even if playing all, unless you're using a non-count like golden touch. Wonging is still very good, though, since the EV per hour is pretty horrendous with small bets.

With a 10k bankroll, $50 max bets could theoretically be underbetting (depends on if the BR is used solely for gambling). Regardless, since this is still very much practice mode, it's fine to keep the bets small.

How to kill time for 6 hours? Easy, keep counting. Six hours is short. But seriously, I san see how frying out is a definite threat, especially when you're starting. And there's always the possibility that heat will limit your sessions.

For the record, I'd say you had a moderately positive session. 12 units over six hours of non-continuous play is probably a better win than your edge would dictate. Congratulations.

[bluewhale]

thanks for the comments all. yeah i realize i was actually over EV. but now i plan to spread even more and stick only to wonging. max bet of $100.

also i DEFINATELY need some kind of cover tactics. basically we just completely ignored the pit and played like we'd play if they didn't exist
so now i want some longevity at the casino and am wondering what to do. obviously think like keeping my sessions short is good. i also liked what someone suggested about doubling down on a hard 16 vs. 10 (double for less, only a $1). i'll only do this once or maayybe twice in a session and obviously when the pit is near.

anyway, i also am considering dressing more like a gangsta. i am brown so i figure feeding the pit/dealer's stereotypes wouldn't hurt. nobody would suspect a dark guy with one of those flat hats with the sticker still on would be counting.

[supercoolmancool]

You could try opposition betting. This type of technique is extremely sucessful in disguising your play I read.

[supercoolmancool]

Also I've read that some pros get by by playing only when the casinos are really busy and everyone around is betting way more that your top bet.

[EasyRhino]

in a nutshell, what's opposition betting?