Basic Strat Q - Soft hands

[halcyon1234]

Is basic strat consistant across all soft hands?

EG: I have A2 vs. 10. BS says hit. I get a 4. Is my A24 == A6 (hit).

I'd assume so, but I'd hate my assumptions to do something weird, like give the hosue a 37.6% edge or something crazy. =)

[CaseyCat]

Is basic strat consistant across all soft hands?

EG: I have A2 vs. 10. BS says hit. I get a 4. Is my A24 == A6 (hit).


I'm pretty new here, but why would you play an A24 vs 10 any different than an A6? My strategy says to hit a soft hand to & including 18 if the dealer is showing 9 or higher. I don't see that it matters if the soft 18 is A7, A34 or for that matter A223

I'm sure someone will be along with a more positive answer.

CC

[EasyRhino]

Yes, play A24 the same as A6. The fundamental odds involved in the hand (your odds of busting or hand improvement, the dealer's odds of busting) don't really change.

In a single deck game, there might be a composition-dependent strategy that could tell you to vary play in certain edge conditions.

[Renzey]

There are a few spots where potential hand situations fell thru the cracks of a basic strategy chart. Here's an exerpt from the basic strategy chapter of Blackjack Bluebook II on pg 58.

DEALER'S UP-CARD
4

YOUR HAND
A/2/5

You started with a soft 13 against a 4 up. Basic strategy says to hit that, so you do and catch a 5 to give you a soft 18. Now what? Well, your chart says to double down with a soft 18 against a 4 -- but you can't double with three cards! Where the charts are concerned, that one fell through the cracks.
Most players' instincts will tell them to stand here, and that happens to be right -- in this particular case. But what if your hit card was a 4, giving you a soft 17 (A/2/4)? The right play is now to hit it! So here's the defining rule for all your multi-card soft hands;

A) Never, ever stand on any kind of soft 17.
B) Hit a multi-card soft 18 against a 9, 10 or Ace only.

And one more thing. In a few casinos, you can double down only on 9, 10 or 11. So where does that leave you if you can't double with say, A/6 against a 5? In that case;

C) Hit all your A/6's (or lower) and stand with all your A/7's or higher against a small dealer's up-card.

[MGP]

Originally Posted by Renzey

There are a few spots where potential hand situations fell thru the cracks of a basic strategy chart.

That's not exactly true. Assuming 6D S17, most charts say DS for 18 vs 3-6: i.e. to stand on hands that you can't double.

There are mistakes in a lot of BS charts but those are mistakes and not things falling through the cracks. The most common mistake is 16 vs 10 should be RS since you are only left with 3 card hands after surrendering and in that situation it's better to stand. Most charts just say R which means surrender and hit when you can't.

One problem that you're demonstrating is simply what people define as "basic strategy". Some people include composition dependent strategy changes in basic strategy while others don't. Some people think non-split pairs should be composition dependent even if no other hands are.

That's why I prefer to use the terms TD (total dependent), 2C or 2-card dependent, or CD for fully composition dependent. When I use TD it's in the strict sense that all hands are played solely based on their total. If it's a pair then it's played TD if not split.

Anyways, you hit on one of my pet peeves about the term "basic strategy" and why I don't like it.

[Renzey]

MGP -- Yes, I've seen those too. But the typical basic strategy chart as found in blackjack books or casino gift shops generally specifies only the most concise play for a given hand; such as A/7 vs. 4 = D. That's why these questions pop up all the time.

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by MGP

The most common mistake is 16 vs 10 should be RS since you are only left with 3 card hands after surrendering and in that situation it's better to stand.

At first I read this and went "Whaaa?!?", but let me see if I have the logical flowchart correct here:

1) If you can surrender, do it.
2) If you have two-card 16, and cannot surrender (because the rules don't allow it), then hit.
3) If you have multi-card 16 then stand.

That right?

[MGP]

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

At first I read this and went "Whaaa?!?", but let me see if I have the logical flowchart correct here:

1) If you can surrender, do it.
2) If you have two-card 16, and cannot surrender (because the rules don't allow it), then hit.
3) If you have multi-card 16 then stand.

That right?

That's correct.