honesty....please

I have played bj for a couple of years. I have played in Tunica and Windsor several times. Playing two weeks ago in Windsor I won $350 (U. S. dollars) but the past three days I lost it. I tried Renzy's system of counting tens and aces and with a little more experience I think I can do it pretty good.

Now here is my problem.....I read of great wins and I just do not see them. Almost everyone loses. In the past three days I saw a couple of people win a few bucks but not a lot and I don't think they were counters.

It just dosen't seem to make a difference. 6's are hiding 5's in front of the dealers and then he hits with a 10.......over and over again and again. There really are no bust cards...why count? While counting the Renzy method I found that every deck size block of cards had about 20 tens and aces in it.

Also, the house almost always wins the first hand in a shoe....then hits a few bj's...and continues to win most hands in the shoe until the last hand and still can come up with a bj.////DOES COUNTING MAKE A CONSISTENT DIFFERENCE? I enjoy playing but most dealers DO NOT PLAY FOR PROFIT. Can you really win at this game?

<<<Can you really win at this game?>>>

Talking strictly in terms of "times" winning or loosing, it makes no difference whether you count or not. The game, played with perfect Basic Strategy, will yield something on the order of 48% of the hands being won by the player and 52% won by the dealer...not counting pushes.

As for money won, even though you'll win the same number of hands, using Basic Strategy without counting you should lose roughly .5% of your total wager during the session. If you are counting and still playing correct Basic Strategy, you should overall come out with around a .5% or 1% profit.

Stastically, you would have to play a lot and bet with a very large bankroll to make a living at this game.

Yes, there are definitely people out there making a living by playing blackjack. It's not 'easy money', and as Mike says you'll need to be making large bets for your expected win to be enough to live on. But the math is unassailable. The most challenging part is staying welcome to play at those levels.

I hate to follow Ken Smith with a post on this subject, but I wanted to provide the perspective of a relatively new player.

If you want to be good at this game, you need to be patient, and as with anything - you need to be prepared to work at it. Pretty hard, as a matter of fact.

As I have said before, I am not in this to make a living. Mainly, I just love to play. But anyone who says they want to play and doesn't care about winning is generally a complete liar or only plays at home.

Me? I do both. But there are really great resources on this board, and I am learning something new every day.

So, there's my 2 cents.

I should clarify one point that both Ken and I made....you need to get large bets out on the table WHEN you have the edge. When you are betting $5 at a $5 minimum table and the count goes sky high and you switch to $2,000 bets, well, it can draw unwanted attention from the men in black!

That "attention" is one of the main reasons so many really good counters have turned to playing Tournaments....they have been identified by the casinos and are not welcome to play at Blackjack in the casinos on the cash tables.

A couple of trips ago, I saw Mr. Stanford Wong walking past my Blackjack table toward the Craps tables at the Plaza. I know that he has been working on the mechanics of setting dice, but it appeared that he was welcome at the Craps tables. However, I wonder what would have happened had Mr. Wong took one of the empty spots at my table?

Point is, there is a lot more to the art of "counting" than just the math!

What do you mean, the mechanics of setting dice??

mike,

there has been all kinds of speculations on many of the other blackjack boards as to Mr. Wong's past. maybe you have read some of the posts? many of them, on his own board, are hilarious. I wonder if you have a take on this? how did you know for sure that was him?

In recent years, Stanford has appeared on several TV shows, so his identity is no longer such a secret. And yes, these days he is playing a lot of craps. Enough savvy players are coming on board that I think some shooters are skilled enough at dice control to overcome the house edge at craps.

As Ken pointed out, Wong has appeared in many Blackjack Tournaments on TV...most recently, World Series of Blackjack II I believe. There is no mistaking ANYONE else as being him <grin>. I wanted so badly to interrupt him...he's such an icon of our game! But, I didn't want to draw unnecessary attention to him. No doubt, the bosses in the pits knew who he was but I didn't want to be responsible for the masses of table gammers flocking around him and bugging him.

After he'd left the casino, I said something to a dealer with whom I've become known at the Plaza. He said that it was funny to watch Wong play BJ. He said he'd stand back away from the table for a while and might grab a spot and bet three or four hands and leave. I could hardly control my mirth! Hello!!! Anyone ever heard of "Wonging In?" <LOL>

I wouldn't be quite so hesitant to jump in and introduce myself to Ken, Rick Jensen, Joe Pane, Kenny Eniger, Holywood Dave and a few others. I've at least exchanged messages on the forums with them. But I have had no contact with Wong.

My reference to the mechanics of dice setting may have been ambiguous. I either read an article of his or saw him on one of the Travel Channel specials where he talked about his latest endevors with Craps. He is training himself to be able to influence the throw of the dice by replicating his arm motions and release of the dice, their tragectory and landing spot so that after setting the dice, he can avoid rolling Sevens. Evidence seems to indicate that such a skill is possible to develop though the casino Pits seem not to hold a lot of faith in it yet.

As for information on Wong's past, I know no more than any of the rest of you (excluding Ken who probably knows him personally). I just know that I admire him tremendously both for his skill at our game and for the published works of Wong's, particularly on Tournament play.

Someday, I want to grow up to be a tournament player <grin>. I'll have to hurry though to beat the Alzythmers!

$2000 bet

That is my point. Dealers just keep winning the hands no matter what point the play is.

Ed

It can certainly happen (losing those hypothetical $2K bets). Getting the money out there when you have the advantage doesn't guarantee that you are going to win those hands...just means you have the edge. That's why your bankroll has to be so large....you have to be able to lose those hands and keep putting it out.