A Full table is better for most players!

[Cardcounter]

Most players play a losing game of blackjack and a full table slows the game down and that players losses so playing at a full table is better for most players. If you are an advantage player playing at a full table is better because it is easier for you to pocket chips and for the dealers and the pit crew have less of an idea of how much you won. A full table also might give you the oportunity for hand interaction plays that give you better advantage.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by Cardcounter

Most players play a losing game of blackjack and a full table slows the game down and that players losses so playing at a full table is better for most players. If you are an advantage player playing at a full table is better because it is easier for you to pocket chips and for the dealers and the pit crew have less of an idea of how much you won. A full table also might give you the oportunity for hand interaction plays that give you better advantage.

The benefits of a full table are not enough to make up for the slower play. For just card counting a full table is NOT better than with only a few players or just yourself. It's nice to be able to easily pocket chips or do hand interaction, but it is MUCH better to play heads up and do without those 2 things.

[ColorMeUp]

Originally Posted by ScottH

The benefits of a full table are not enough to make up for the slower play. For just card counting a full table is NOT better than with only a few players or just yourself. It's nice to be able to easily pocket chips or do hand interaction, but it is MUCH better to play heads up and do without those 2 things.

To a counter, an empty table is better since you get more play per time spent at the table. Since you have the advantage, the more hands you are able to play gets you closer and closer to your EV.

However, to the non card counter, playing at a packed table is better. You get less play for the time you're there, but if you're getting rated for comps the clock still ticks, so you effectively wager less money for the comps you get. Plus if you add things like free drinks into the equation, pretty soon the game is almost +EV when you take into consideration the -.40% you lose if you play perfect BS as well as the $5 Heineken you get every 10 minutes sitting there........

My personal take is this. I don't play enough times per year to worry about counting (nor do I have the bankroll required or the time to invest in learning it). I go to Vegas once a year and Atlantic city probably 3 times. I play for the lowest stakes possible, since I'm a poor college student. I play perfect basic strategy and play at the tables with the best rules I can find. When I figure what my -EV is for playing $5 blackjack for an hour, then look at how much the 3 beers I had over that hour would have cost me at the bar, I end up +EV. Plus, figure in the dealer mistakes that I've profited from and some of the hand interaction plays I've done, and the game isn't all that bad.

[ChefJJ]

Originally Posted by ColorMeUp

To a counter, an empty table is better since you get more play per time spent at the table. Since you have the advantage, the more hands you are able to play gets you closer and closer to your EV.

However, to the non card counter, playing at a packed table is better. You get less play for the time you're there, but if you're getting rated for comps the clock still ticks, so you effectively wager less money for the comps you get. Plus if you add things like free drinks into the equation, pretty soon the game is almost +EV when you take into consideration the -.40% you lose if you play perfect BS as well as the $5 Heineken you get every 10 minutes sitting there........

My personal take is this. I don't play enough times per year to worry about counting (nor do I have the bankroll required or the time to invest in learning it). I go to Vegas once a year and Atlantic city probably 3 times. I play for the lowest stakes possible, since I'm a poor college student. I play perfect basic strategy and play at the tables with the best rules I can find. When I figure what my -EV is for playing $5 blackjack for an hour, then look at how much the 3 beers I had over that hour would have cost me at the bar, I end up +EV. Plus, figure in the dealer mistakes that I've profited from and some of the hand interaction plays I've done, and the game isn't all that bad.

Damn straight...a man after my own tastes. Free booze (minus the $1 tip) is absolutely, positively +EV in my book.

good luck

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by ColorMeUp

To a counter, an empty table is better since you get more play per time spent at the table. Since you have the advantage, the more hands you are able to play gets you closer and closer to your EV.

However, to the non card counter, playing at a packed table is better. You get less play for the time you're there, but if you're getting rated for comps the clock still ticks, so you effectively wager less money for the comps you get. Plus if you add things like free drinks into the equation, pretty soon the game is almost +EV when you take into consideration the -.40% you lose if you play perfect BS as well as the $5 Heineken you get every 10 minutes sitting there........

My personal take is this. I don't play enough times per year to worry about counting (nor do I have the bankroll required or the time to invest in learning it). I go to Vegas once a year and Atlantic city probably 3 times. I play for the lowest stakes possible, since I'm a poor college student. I play perfect basic strategy and play at the tables with the best rules I can find. When I figure what my -EV is for playing $5 blackjack for an hour, then look at how much the 3 beers I had over that hour would have cost me at the bar, I end up +EV. Plus, figure in the dealer mistakes that I've profited from and some of the hand interaction plays I've done, and the game isn't all that bad.

Of course I was talking about for card counting purposes only. I wouldn't even talk about what is better for a non-counter, since the answer is obvious, the best thing for a non-counter is not a full table, it's to not be at the table at all!

[Preston]

Originally Posted by ScottH

The benefits of a full table are not enough to make up for the slower play. For just card counting a full table is NOT better than with only a few players or just yourself. It's nice to be able to easily pocket chips or do hand interaction, but it is MUCH better to play heads up and do without those 2 things.

You also forgot to mention how annoying it is when the count goes up and the flat-betting ploppies suck up all the good cards and you're getting dealt 15 after 15 and they're getting minimum bet blackjacks to their hearts content.

It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum :-)

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by Preston

You also forgot to mention how annoying it is when the count goes up and the flat-betting ploppies suck up all the good cards and you're getting dealt 15 after 15 and they're getting minimum bet blackjacks to their hearts content.

It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum :-)

Yeah, whenever that happens you always feel like you earned those blackjacks by predicting they will come out and raising your bet, but everyone else gets them but you. Oh well.

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by Preston

It's kinda funny that right now I'm actually in the hotel lobby of the casino I just took for a nice sum on a counting forum :-)

OHMIGOD THEY'LL TRACK YOUR IP ADDRESS!
RUN PRESTON RUN!!!!1

[Preston]

Relax. This casino is so shitty that if they banned me they would be doing me a favor.

[ChefJJ]

Originally Posted by ScottH

Of course I was talking about for card counting purposes only. I wouldn't even talk about what is better for a non-counter, since the answer is obvious, the best thing for a non-counter is not a full table, it's to not be at the table at all!

Yeah, God forbid a "non-counter" play and have fun. That wouldn't be good for them at all.