6 deck shoe questions

[harkey7]

Hey everyone, this is my first post as I am quite new to the forum, but I have serveral questions I think would be best asked all at one time. I have a few casinos I visit throughout the midwest, and for the most part, the rules tend to be the same: dealer hits soft 17, double any card, split any card (aces hit once), doubling allowed after splitting. I have read a few blackjack books since I started playing a few years ago, with Cardoza's quick guide to winning blackjack on my desk at the moment. If you have this book, I use the Atlantic City Multiple Deck chart for my basic strategy play. Questions for playing with a 6 deck shoe:

1)using the hi/lo method with (10-A = -1) (7,8,9 = 0) (2-6 = 1) what running count should i start with as I enter a brand new shoe? I have done a lot of internet research, and for the most part, places say different things. I generally begin a shoe from the 0 position, but I would like to be more precise with my count. The places I play will show the burn/blind if asked.

2)I use a betting table based on the true count with a spread from 5 to 25:

True Count Units bet
0-1 1
2-3 2
4-5 3
6-7 4
8 and up 5
I have thought about making the spread wider to increase my chances of having more on the table when the deck is in my favor. My question is what you would suggest in this spread as far as making or not making changes? I don't have a huge bankroll, but I like to bring 100-150 to the table per session.

Thanks for the help everyone, I'm sure I will have more questions in the future.

[KenSmith]

You should be starting your running count at 0 after the shuffle. That's true of pretty much any balanced counting system.

As for your spread, it's really too small to make any money in the six-deck game. A 1-5 spread is probably a net loser, because you're not winning enough in the good plus counts to offset the losses at the zero and negative counts. There are two ways to fix this: Either spread bigger, or only play positive counts. I wouldn't seriously consider playing through negative counts unless my spread was 12:1 or higher.

Another piece of advice: You don't reach your maximum bet until the true count reaches 8. Most players agree that you should probably have your max bet on the table at a true +5 or above. Most optimal betting calculations come out with a ramp that maxes at around +5.

After tax time is over, I'll try to run some sims on this to get real numbers.

[harkey7]

Mr. Smith,

Thank you for the advice. I have been practicing with your suggestions on simulators for the past few days, and I have a few more questions/comments.

First, how might casinos react to me simply "quitting" on shoes when the count becomes negative. Most places I have been have never said anything when I have done so, but I wondered if you had any experiences. Normally, I use this time to stand up and get something to drink or to use the restrooms.

As to the bet spread, you suggest going with a 1-12, which would place me at between $5 and $60, if I am to play through negative counts. How much would you suggest sitting down at a five dollar table with for a session?

Next, I have simply been using variations of the spread based on the true count in my sims, but when you get time, can you tell me what would be the optimal betting strategy using this spread with a max bet coming out at 5 or greater? Thanks for all your help.

[neemo6]

I am also interested in the results of the sim.

[RavenSlay3r]

As for your spread, it's really too small to make any money in the six-deck game. A 1-5 spread is probably a net loser, because you're not winning enough in the good plus counts to offset the losses at the zero and negative counts. There are two ways to fix this: Either spread bigger, or only play positive counts. I wouldn't seriously consider playing through negative counts unless my spread was 12:1 or higher.

I'm also curious - do you recommend just not playing the hands with a negative count? I've found this tends to piss off other players also, as you "mess up their cards" (regardless of the truth)... Not to mention attracting unwanted curious attention from dealers and pit-boss's.

I've seen the same betting strategy for Hi-Lo in several places.
Count() = Bet
count < 1 Bet = 1
2-3 = 2
4-5 = 3
6-7 = 4
8-9 = 5
etc...

In practice I use the formula that describes the table because I keep forgetting it.

If True-Count is Even:
Bet = .5 * TrueCount + 1

If True-Count is Odd:
Bet = .5 * (TrueCount -1) +1


(if in doubt assume fair 6-deck Atlantic CIty Rules)
What betting-strategy would you reccomend using for Hi-Lo instead of this?
What Bankroll would you suggest for a $10 table base on that answer?
Approx how long would it take to double that bank-roll and what is the risk of ruin?