Israel, No Right To Exist?

[zengrifter]

One of the most thoughtful, intelligent considerations by a Jew that I have read. zg

---------------
Polite Discussion on Zionism: Is it Possible?
Karin Friedemann
April 25, 2007
World View News Service

EXCERPT -
If international law were followed, the Israeli "government' would never have kicked out any Palestinians. The entire existence of Israel is based on the condition made by the UN that Palestinians would remain in their homes and receive equal citizenship in the new nation state. That condition was not followed. Therefore, there is no legal basis for any assumption that Israel has a right to exist according to the UN. In fact, Israel does not really exist. It is a figment of imagination, the defensive mechanism of the neurotic Jewish collective consciousness. I agree that we need to stop arguing about isms but the next step is to solve the problems. Don't wait for the world community to force Israel to do it. Why don't we, as Jews, just do it? Why are Progressive Jews wasting their time feeling emotionally threatened by a one state solution? The real problem is that we are feeling emotionally threatened by any solution. Because a solution means that Jews need to be prosecuted.

HERE - http://karinfriedemann.blogspot.com/

[MEDITANK]

You might as well start wearing a swastika.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by MEDITANK

You might as well start wearing a swastika.

Why? Because its "anti-semitic" to criticize unlawful behavior by the Israeli government? The above article was written by a compassionate Jew and it raises the KEY POINT - Palestinians were NEVER supposed to be uprooted and/or subjected to second-class citizenship treatment! zg

[zengrifter]

The Possible States Of Palestine
Terrell E. Arnold
5-2-7 / RENSE

For those in despair over the sixty-year failure to resolve the dire and reprehensible conditions Israel has imposed on the Palestinian people, a public debate by two prominent Israelis on the pros and cons of the choices is good news. The debate merits at least a cautious maybe.

On the one side stands Uri Avnery, an 82-year old European-born Israeli peace advocate who has been a thorn in the side of Israeli leaders since the first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion. He has been sounding off on Israeli official misdeeds since the Nakba of 1948 when Israeli terrorists and paramilitary forces either massacred or forcibly expelled nearly a million Palestinians from their ancestral home.

On the other side is Ilan Pappe, a native-born Israeli whose formative years were passed in the innocent environs of a mythical narrative of noble Jewish achievement that spoke naught of its bloody past. As an historian, Pappe awoke slowly to the truth of the Nakba and the continuing war crime that the Israelis have perpetrated against the Palestinians. But he told that like it was in his 2006 book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.

The debate is not a formal standup confrontation.

In his editorial Looking for Alternatives to Failure, published on Electronic Intifada, Ilan Pappe takes the position that the kind of external heat put on South Africa to end apartheid should be exerted on Israel to end their repression of the Palestinians and to live with them as equals. He embeds this approach in a three-part program of boycotts, disinvestments, and sanctions. All those steps were taken by outsiders in the South Africa case and ultimately succeeded in bringing down apartheid.

...more - http://rense.com/general76/poss.htm

[zengrifter]

Monday May 14/07

Kasrils says Israel's behaviour worse than apartheid

PRETORIA – South African Intelligence Minister Ronnie Kasrils Thursday accused Israel of conducting a policy against the Palestinians that was worse than apartheid.

Speaking on the sidelines of a UN meeting on the situation in the Palestinian territories, Kasrils said South Africa’s townships had never been attacked by helicopter gunships and tanks, in contrast to the military means employed by Israel.

“The analogy between apartheid and Israel’s occupation of Palestine is often made. It is not the same thing. The occupation is absolutely worse,” Kasrils told reporters.

...more - http://www.citizen.co.za/index/artic...esc=38370,1,22

[MEDITANK]

It's funny that he doesn't mention anything about how these muslims treat not only women, but also their own women.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by MEDITANK

It's funny that he doesn't mention anything about how these muslims treat not only women, but also their own women.

The Israeli record on treatment of women is not good either. zg

[MEDITANK]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

The Israeli record on treatment of women is not good either. zg

Not hardly and throw in the fact that they don't have to walk around with a potato sack over their entire body with a slit cut around the eyes. Try doing that in desert heat day in and day out! The vast majority of muslim women have an absurd high percentage of rape, physical violence by their husbands and other men. If you don't mind me asking, what is your beef with the Jewish nation? Did they do something to you? Have you ever known a muslim on a regular basis? Did you ever go to school with them? I did for 5 years in college. 75% of the college of engineering was muslim. That was also during the hostage crisis. I found it quite odd when they brought guns into the library and took the entire top floor in a standoff with campus police to protest that campus police and the university were fascists. I wonder why they wanted to go to a university and learn from fascists? I never could really figure that one out. I don't think they could either. Every single one of them had a sincere hate for anything American. Another contradiction. The last place I would want to go to school is from a place that I hate and a place where I don't believe in their values.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by MEDITANK

Not hardly and throw in the fact that they don't have to walk around with a potato sack over their entire body with a slit cut around the eyes. Try doing that in desert heat day in and day out!

This is not all Muslim countries/cultures.

The vast majority of muslim women have an absurd high percentage of rape, physical violence by their husbands and other men.

Perhaps, I don't know the statistics, BUT I understand that its high in Israel too, compared to say Western Europe countries like France or even the US.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your beef with the Jewish nation? Did they do something to you?

My beef with ZIONIST Israel is the brutal aparthied treatment of Palestinians, which started and/or accelerated Middle East violence. Lets face it - Israel STOLE the Palestinian West Bank and has treated Palestinains very badly for decades. Its INEXCUSABLE.

Aside from that I have many friends AND relatives who are Jewish, including Israeli - afterall my grandfather and great grandfather, a Cantor and Rabbi, respectively, were Jewish.

But I am clear that secular Zionism is NOT Judaism.

Have you ever known a muslim on a regular basis? Did you ever go to school with them?

Yes and yes.

I did for 5 years in college. 75% of the college of engineering was muslim. That was also during the hostage crisis. I found it quite odd when they brought guns into the library and took the entire top floor in a standoff with campus police to protest that campus police and the university were fascists. I wonder why they wanted to go to a university and learn from fascists? I never could really figure that one out. I don't think they could either. Every single one of them had a sincere hate for anything American. Another contradiction. The last place I would want to go to school is from a place that I hate and a place where I don't believe in their values.

Perhaps. Certainly you must consider the pain that the intrusion of Israel has caused the Middle East, especially to Palestinian Arabs.

Also, many supposed acts of Muslim terror were actually "false flag" (ie, synthetic terror) perpetrated by Israeli intelligence (Mossad) to garner Israeli support and sympathy. Like the Achille Lauro attack led by master Mossad spy Abu Nidal. zg

[MEDITANK]

Israel was there first. When did this muhammed guy live again? Wasn't that around 600A.D.? Hmmmmm. Sounds fishy doesn't it? In fact, the koran fiction book wasn't even around yet but the Jews were in Jerusalem and especially where the temple mount is, this is even confirmed by the artifacts being dung up but being destroyed by these palestinians animals. Are you sure about Jewish women wearing potato sacks? I don't think so. I hope you are not fabricating even more bias than already exists in your hatred of the Jewish people. You stated that you have known muslims. What is their opinion of you? If you happen to know that is. Since you believe everything is fabricated and biased, what better source than a muslim you can ask yourself right? That's pretty fair. Ask these college educated muslims here in the US if they are confused about their values, I mean, after all, they ventured far far from home to travel here and learn from our fascists universities, the very ones they disdain. I wonder if all of that fascism has corrupted their thinking? Don't worry, I won't lose any sleep worrying over animals.