Comps in High Limit Rooms and Buying Hands

[Dyepaintball12]

Hey guys. 2 unrelated questions but I thought Id save time and put them together:

1) I usually play for about $15min a hand, but am thinking about moving to $25min a hand because I have more money. At the Casino I play in, Casino Windsor, they have a High limit room where BJ min is only $25. I am wondering if playing in the HL room will give any more comps than just playing $25 in the regular area.

Casino Windsor was just bought by Harrahs if that helps at all.

2) I want to know about buying peoples hands at the tables, and doubling for people. How do you go about doing this? Do all casinos allow it?

[21forme]

Comps will probably be the same. Scrutiny will probably be greater.

[Mimosine]

Originally Posted by Dyepaintball12

Hey guys. 2 unrelated questions but I thought Id save time and put them together:

1) I usually play for about $15min a hand, but am thinking about moving to $25min a hand because I have more money. At the Casino I play in, Casino Windsor, they have a High limit room where BJ min is only $25. I am wondering if playing in the HL room will give any more comps than just playing $25 in the regular area.

Casino Windsor was just bought by Harrahs if that helps at all.

2) I want to know about buying peoples hands at the tables, and doubling for people. How do you go about doing this? Do all casinos allow it?

RE 1: it should not matter, unless the pit in the HL room is more diligent than the pit in the LL room. i.e. they track bets better, and make a better point to make their customers happy.

RE 2: every casino i've played in allows other players to put up money on other peoples doubles. you just toss your chips to the player, they typically have to "touch" the chips one time for the eye in the sky, then all goes as normal. buying other people's hands is much more rare, i've never seen it done, i've only read about it, for me i don't imagine ever trying it unless i find someone really really desparate, but then even putting up money for someone else's double is confusing enough, i couldn't imagine trying to explain what i was doing while trying to buy someone's hand, much less expecting the dealer to understand, so i just avoid it. i'm also not betting at a level appropraiate to buy hands, you being at the $25 level, however are.

[shadroch]

2) I'm generally fairly talkative and try to build a small relationship with my tablemates.As the game progresses,and players are reluctant to make proper splits or double downs,I suggest they simply sell me their hands for what they have invested.at my favorite casino,they offer the Royal Match sidebet. As I almost never play it,I offer my spot up to whomever is playing it.Thus it is ntural that our "partnership" grows as it will.

[shadroch]

Originally Posted by Mimosine

RE 1: it should not matter, unless the pit in the HL room is more diligent than the pit in the LL room. i.e. they track bets better, and make a better point to make their customers happy.

RE 2: every casino i've played in allows other players to put up money on other peoples doubles. you just toss your chips to the player, they typically have to "touch" the chips one time for the eye in the sky, then all goes as normal. buying other people's hands is much more rare, i've never seen it done, i've only read about it, for me i don't imagine ever trying it unless i find someone really really desparate, but then even putting up money for someone else's double is confusing enough, i couldn't imagine trying to explain what i was doing while trying to buy someone's hand, much less expecting the dealer to understand, so i just avoid it. i'm also not betting at a level appropraiate to buy hands, you being at the $25 level, however are.

Its not so much people are desperate,its that they don't know any better. Someone who never plays,and has been burned two or three times splitting Aces may be very reluctant to split them again.Nor is he thrilled with a hand of 2 or 12,so he will happily sell you his hand for his original bet.
I like to add money when someone is doubling down for less,but avoid offering to put up the DD money entirely,even if the guy is flat broke.Doing so can hurt the player,because he is giving up his right to more cards,for zero reward.

[Mimosine]

Originally Posted by shadroch

Its not so much people are desperate,its that they don't know any better. Someone who never plays,and has been burned two or three times splitting Aces may be very reluctant to split them again.Nor is he thrilled with a hand of 2 or 12,so he will happily sell you his hand for his original bet.
I like to add money when someone is doubling down for less,but avoid offering to put up the DD money entirely,even if the guy is flat broke.Doing so can hurt the player,because he is giving up his right to more cards,for zero reward.

i guess i lack the finesse necessary to pull off buying hands.... in terms of doubling down, i often will "take it upon myself" to double down for others full amount. having built a nice relationship with tablemates who are new to playing they often let me get the full advantage on their doubles. in a recent session, my entire winnings were made from making two key doubles with big bets --- i will double down in excess of my max bet, as it is a sure +EV. i don't get too carried away ~ +20% to my max bet is acceptable especially in high counts.

if someone was down to their last bet, i too would stay away from that, or from anyone who comes off as a hot head...

[EasyRhino]

It's definitely important to know which scenarios are a "win" for you in terms of splits and doubledowns (for that I would refer to the work of Mr. Renzey, but also Grosjean's article on scavenger blackjack). That way you can avoid hand interaction that is -EV (splitting 6s vs a 2).

If you want to be a nice guy, it's worth knowing which hands are "win-win" and which are "win-lose". Then you'd only goad the player into a split or double when it would be the best move anyway (finishing off doubles, doubling 10-11 vs. a stiff, splits with a positive expectation).

For me the trickiest play is to - quickly - negotiate with the player whether you are "buying" one of the hands, or if you're going in together on the results. Especially if you start getting into multiple splits and doubles.

Oh, and one place I was at the dealer scolded me that I wasn't allowed to split hands with another player (after the player had already agreed). So I just pushed some chips over to the player, said "here's twenty bucks", and he split the hands, and then pushed some chips back.

... actually this was a casino that I was backed off from on my next visit... coincidence?

[shadroch]

Okay,but when those players let you take full advantage by doubling down with only your money,they are hurting themselves.My rule of thunb is not to try to do anything to another player,I wouldn't do myself.
If I have an 11 vs 7, and no money left,I'm not letting anyone else double down on it. Suppose I get an Ace.I'm screwed because I let someone else try to make some money.I'd sell him the hand,for $10 if he wants,but he's not using my cards unless he's giving something in return.

[Cardcounter]

As far as buying a players hand I don't believe in that and have never seen it done. However I would go partners on a split or if a player doubled for less I would toss over the extra to fill in the double. Good times to go partners and buy a split your partner or table mate splits a pair of aces gets another ace and doesn't have enough to split I would toss the amount of the split next to him say I will pay for your split. He gets a chance to make a better hand and you get a profitable hand it is a win win situation. Another one of my favorite plays is the dealer is showing a 6 the person next to has a 7 and wants to double down make a side bet with the player next to that the dealer will make a hand. Don't make it more than the size of his bet.

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by shadroch

Okay,but when those players let you take full advantage by doubling down with only your money,they are hurting themselves.

Yes. And even if they only double with some of their own money, they're hurting themselves, at some point when doubling vs a high card they'd be better off just regular hitting.

I'll always encourage a player to make the right call re: doubling or splitting. I'll offer to go in with them if it's a win-win to further cajole them. And, well, if they offer me to go in on a win-lose, I won't turn them down. There are limits to my altruism.