Observations on my first three outings

[aslan]

My first outing was never meant to be. I had just started learning KO, but was not ready. I went to Reno and incurred a substantial loss (for me) using BS. I plunged into KO in an attempt to recoup my money and lo and behold, it worked! And even more surprising, I was able to keep the RC most of the time (except for when they threw a couple of extraordinarily fast dealers at me).

On my second outing, which was to AC, I was versed in KO Rookie and I did pretty well. This trip taught me to sit in position four or five (I prefer five) where I can count the two rounds of the deal before the dealer gets to my hand. I always wait until both rounds are dealt and then quickly figure the RC, which is easy because most combinations cancel each other out (the obvious 10/5, A/4, etc. and the two separate canceling hands Q/J, 5/6, etc. or 9/A, 8/4, etc.).

On my third and last outing I actually played for thirteen hours off and on over a 16-hour period. I didn't employ the full 10X spread because my bankroll was only $5,000 (the book says I need 100 times my max bet). Also, I'm still queasy about the prospect of being spotted and asked to leave. So I played $10-$50, and when they raised the minimum to $15, I played $15-$50 until late in the wee hours when they again opened up a $10 table. I only made $1,300, but hey! who's complaining! Of course, had I been playing 10$-$100 I would have made $2,600.

I learned to carry on conversations with the dealer and other players while still maintaining the count. This ability should get better and better the more I play, although I don't intentionally start a conversation unless I think I need to better camo my play.

I also learned that if I miss a card or two to just count it as the worst case scenario, say, a minus one or minus two, depending on the situation. In that way even though I might miss the exact point at which to start betting higher, at least I know I'm at the Key Count or higher when I do.

Lastly, I found out you have to be careful how you camo yourself. I wore a Mets hat and you wouldn't believe how many people started talking to me about the Mets--everyone figured I was from NYC and an avid fan. In fact, I didn't know a single player's name or have any idea how they were doing. This created a few difficult situations, but I somehow managed to let them do most the talking--they were so happy to meet a fellow fan in AC!

I had read that a good camo of one's play was to gradually increase the bet as the count goes higher over the Key Count. I think this is a good idea. I also sometimes played two separate hands which I reasoned gave me more opportunities to hit good hands and BJ's and also to bet more without it being so conspicuous. Is this a good ploy?

I can't wait to go back. As I told a friend, "I'm going to keep returning (to the casinos) until they learn how to beat me!"

[shadroch]

If confronted with a similar problem( people wanting to talk about the sports team whose hat you are wearing),and assuming you are male-tell them that you hate sports but its your boyfriends hat. That should end the conversation.

It sounds like you are off to a very nice start. Best of luck.

[Kasi]

[QUOTE=aslan;41737]This trip taught me to sit in position four or five (I prefer five) where I can count the two rounds of the deal before the dealer gets to my hand. I always wait until both rounds are dealt and then quickly figure the RC.../QUOTE]

No big deal - but I usually just cancel out 2 or 3 cards AS they are being dealt rather than waiting until all are dealt. Then, even at 1st base, I have it as soon as all are dealt.

And, if I screw up, then I can go back and count the dealt cards for a second chance, just like u do.

Try it a little bit and u'll find it just as easy.

[EasyRhino]

Where was the third trip? If it was AC or any of the medium-brow places in vegas, I really wouldn't sweat a $50 max bet. And you won $1300 with it? That's a nice little run. For the record, $100/hr is far far better than your expected value with your bet level.

What kind of games were you playing with the 1-5 spread? If they were shoe games, I sincerely hope you were wonging as much as possible, as that spread is quite probably still a losing proposition in a play all environment.

Finally, pop quiz for you, when you were betting two hands in a "max bet" count, how much were you betting on each spot?

[biggamejames]

Sticking to one particular spread in my opinion is an easy way to get caught.(Now i have to specify that i primarily play SD or DD not shoes) so i really have no clue as to how security or the pit works multiple decks.

But if you are betting SD or DD, and you are using one basic spread, you are very easy to spot as a counter. This is because you will have a standard increament with the count that any pit boss or security personel can very easily detect.

Not to mention, the lower your spread the longer you have to spend at the table. Hence the more hands you have to play and the more of your play you expose to those who might be watching you.

I dont see how any player, (even one with a 50$ max play) can hide from security or the pit crew. Your card counting is as plain as day light to any one watching your play.

Now i guess multidecks may be different is some way but i really dont see how they are that much different, (from the point of view of the PC or security watching your action)..


This is one subject that has really bothered me about this site.

Ps..One thing i know for fact, the dealer has almost nothing to do with the fact that you are caught counting or not. Matter of fact most dealers dont even give a rats ass as long as you are throwing them some crumbs every now and then.

Most dealers dont even like the fact that the casino takes that much money from people and pays them peanuts for wages. Its the typical "us" against them mentality most of them take and most of them know that their next meal will more likely come out of your tips than the meagre casino pay check.



There is really no legit advice on beating the crew...

[biggamejames]

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

Where was the third trip? If it was AC or any of the medium-brow places in vegas, I really wouldn't sweat a $50 max bet. And you won $1300 with it? That's a nice little run. For the record, $100/hr is far far better than your expected value with your bet level.

What kind of games were you playing with the 1-5 spread? If they were shoe games, I sincerely hope you were wonging as much as possible, as that spread is quite probably still a losing proposition in a play all environment.

Finally, pop quiz for you, when you were betting two hands in a "max bet" count, how much were you betting on each spot?

I have to say this. Wonging out of a game is not as easy as you guys imply it is. Do it enough times in negative counts and the casino will very easily be on to you as a counter.

Secondly as most importantly for people who say that its wrong to go table hopping (and i am not talking about walking out on a shoe during a positive count so dont start bogus parallel arguments),
how is wonging out of a shoe that different. Do you assume a guy can wong out 3 or 4 times at the same table and just sit there or pretend like he has to piss every 15 minutes? (not to mention that half the ploppies at the other table will whine and moan incessantly about the counter who they dont know is actually wonging out, claiming he is "screwing up the rotation"? It may not be scientific fact, but the PC will take notice of your actions due to that whinning and groaning from your playmates!!!

Some one should also explain the exact tact you use to wong out. Do you just run to the bathroom and estimate the time it will take to run out the bad shoe? What happens if you miss time the beginning or a new shoe? or some people plopped into the seats at your spot and played out the deck?

Wouldnt this have the same time consequence as the person who left a DD table to find a new table because he couldnt beat the previous dealer?

Do you skulk around near the table while counting the cards waiting for the count to get better? If so, what do you assume the pit boss or eye in the sky is doing at during that time?


Ps..Playing in a real casino in real time opens ones eyes to many things.

Unfortunately, none of those real life facts are actually addressed on this table or are mostly glossed over in favor of unrealistic mathematical calculations which while true are more or less impracticle in a real life environment. Some of you posters need to accept the fact that some of the mathematics in this field is simple impracticle.

[21forme]

You don't have to worry about being thrown out in AC. They're not permitted to do it. Worst they can do is shuffle up, make you flat bet, or put the cut card at 50%.

[dacium]

Your expected win would only be a few dollars per hour. You got very lucky. Remember this next time you count for 13 hours and loose $1,000.

[ScottH]

Originally Posted by 21forme

Worst they can do is shuffle up,

That's all they need to do to stop a card counter...

[biggamejames]

Originally Posted by 21forme

You don't have to worry about being thrown out in AC. They're not permitted to do it. Worst they can do is shuffle up, make you flat bet, or put the cut card at 50%.

Is this the same for SD and DD games in AC?

Do they shuffle up on a player even those games without throwing them out of the casino?