Question for Edgecapper

[biggamejames]

I need your expertise on the issue regarding the use of rewards cards by a counter.

I find that when i refuse to give the casino my rewards cards, it often opens up the game with an air of great suspicion and unease among the pit crew. So i either have to tough out the first 20 or so minutes with the bosses hovering annoyingly while making way too many cover plays and this can be costly..

If you give them the card they now know who you are, and of course you get the pc to calm down a bit. Those bastards some where in the back rooms now know your weeks earnings at their casino, if you are winning more than they appreciate, they will not probably have an eye on you when you step in the casino next.

what would be the best way to use your rewards card to get comps.(which i live by on this trips)

[biggamejames]

one more question...

do you post on any sports betting forums? your handle is familiar...

[ColorMeUp]

Originally Posted by biggamejames

I find that when i refuse to give the casino my rewards cards, it often opens up the game with an air of great suspicion and unease among the pit crew.

Why wouldn't you just say "I don't have one" when they ask you for it? At the stores I frequent I would say that more players don't present players cards at the tables than do.

[shadroch]

As you still haven't told us what kind of counting system you use,I can only offer some generic help.
Why are you making any sort of cover plays when you have first sat down. The PB has no idea what kind of player you are.If you flat bet $100 for a half hour or so,regardless of count,you'll lose about $30.That has to be cheaper than just one so-called cover play.No PB in the world is going to be hovering over a flat bettor if the casino is semi-full.If you want to seal the deal,get up and walk away from a monster count.As you are flat-betting and simply playing BS. It will cost you nothing. Not a single dime,but will absolutely convince the PB you aren't counting.

[moo321]

If you refuse to give a card, they can't track your play. They won't be able to look up "that one guy" in the database. On the other hand, you look more suspicious, and you don't get comps. Your call.

[shadroch]

Originally Posted by moo321

If you refuse to give a card, they can't track your play. They won't be able to look up "that one guy" in the database. On the other hand, you look more suspicious, and you don't get comps. Your call.

Thats not correct. They can still track your play and can easily identify you in their database from your photo. Casinos are getting some very advanced facial recognition software.They don't need a name to 86 a player.

[biggamejames]

Originally Posted by ColorMeUp

Why wouldn't you just say "I don't have one" when they ask you for it? At the stores I frequent I would say that more players don't present players cards at the tables than do.

See this is why wanna ask the guy who has worked at the Casino so he can tell me how thinks work.

One time i told this pit boss that i didnt have my card. Went on on and on about how they give us too many cards and i cant keep track of mine.
So the pit boss says, just give me your ID and i will make you another card.
And he stands right there by me waiting for the ID. Dismissively i say, no i dont have the ID.... Then the sucker gets this look on his face like i just said Osama is crouching under the table!!! He walks off to call friggin security or some crap....I was just tired of looking for a table so i folded and gave him the id!!!

But the reason i ask Edgecapper this question is because there might be a chance that a player may be under more scrutiny if they dont show a card than one who comes in and seems normal and gives up his card.

[Ms. Dalton]

Originally Posted by biggamejames

So the pit boss says, just give me your ID and i will make you another card.
And he stands right there by me waiting for the ID.

This was happening to me too and I just gave in and started using a player card.
Is it your "regular" casino or someplace you don't game at very often? I try and skip the player card at a place until I decide I'm going to add it to my regular stomping grounds. I figure when I'm someplace often enough to be remembered or look familiar to some of the dealers, I might as well stop trying to hide things.
That being said, I too would very much like to know from a casino employee perspective if it draws more attention to be avoiding identity info.

[EasyRhino]

"Card refused" is going to be one suspicious factor for the casino management. But by itself it won't mean anything. But combine it with other suspicious factors (ramping bets, play deviations, buying in for an unusually large amount, betting an unusually large amount) and you got problems.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by biggamejames

I find that when i refuse to give the casino my rewards cards, it often opens up the game with an air of great suspicion and unease among the pit crew.

That’s true. When a player turns down free stuff, the pit bosses rightfully get suspicious. I’ve heard several pit bosses say this. There are a few ways to handle this.

Playing with a card:

Some players will have a “home” casino or two that they use for comps. They will play conservatively, sometimes even a break-even game, and not get carried away with their bet spread. They will use these casinos strictly to accrue comps and free rooms/meals. All other casinos can be played aggressively. This is what Max Rubin calls Comp Counting. You could also do straight comp hustling without counting at your home casinos, but that’s a bit extreme.

If you’re not willing to eat up a bunch of variance by playing a weak game then you can still play aggressively and possibly risk getting backed off. In that case you can always return using a different rewards card. You can use a friend’s card, a random card that you find in the casino, or use an alternate ID to get a new card using a different name. These methods only work if the pit bosses don’t recognize your face. In most of the big strip casinos this isn’t much of a problem, but it might wear out your welcome for a few months. During that time you’ll have to find a new “home” casino.

Playing without a card:

If you’re willing to give up some of your comps then you can play anonymously. That way you can play as aggressively as you want. If you don’t get too crazy then you will still qualify for food and drink comps and line passes, but the free rooms and tournaments will disappear. Even though most casinos will give you a “casino rate” for a room with no questions asked, those free rooms can really be a big help.

Originally Posted by biggamejames

One time i told this pit boss that i didnt have my card. Went on on and on about how they give us too many cards and i cant keep track of mine.
So the pit boss says, just give me your ID and i will make you another card.
And he stands right there by me waiting for the ID. Dismissively i say, no i dont have the ID.... Then the sucker gets this look on his face like i just said Osama is crouching under the table!!!

This kind of situation is not hard to deal with if you have a good act. You can give them almost any reason for not wanting to get a rewards card:

-“I don’t want the IRS to know about this. I've already got problems.”
-“I don’t want my wife to know about this part of the “’business trip.’”
-“I’m sick of all that junk mail. I get crap every week from XYZ casino ever since I signed up.”
-“I don’t give anybody my personal information ever since my identity was stolen last year.”
-“I don’t have time for the paperwork. My flight leaves in two hours and I need to win back $300!”
-“No way! If the guys from Gamblers Anonymous find out that I’m here I’ll break my probation.”
-“No, I can’t stay for long. My wife is asleep upstairs and I need to get back before she wakes up.” This is great for Wonging.

The list goes on and on. There are dozens of different excuses to give depending on what sort of act you are using and what style of play you are using.

-Sonny-