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  #1  
Old April 19th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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Default Sands of the Carribean - dishonest

Ever single time i have played on the 15-250 tables after "building up my pile of chips on the lower tables (3-50 and 5-100)" It just eats my money with ludicrous dealer hands. They claim this casino is 100% random... but i find it hard to believe when i consistently get stopped in the tracks when really gambling. The dealer keeps getting 21 vs my 20s or 1 more than my hand.. It just doesn't feel like a real deck... it is like i can predict the outcome, not the cards... but I know that im going to lose but i play anyways since im clouded by anger at the time. I have stayed up at the real casinos, and on this online casino i just keep going down!! they might have pretty nice software, a decent comp program, etc... but their games just don't seem legit from what i have seen!
  #2  
Old April 19th, 2005, 04:34 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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Of course, I could just been having bad luck for the $4400 in deposits over the course of 3 months

Its just interesting how my experience at Real casinos seem to be a good amount different when it comes to winning.
  #3  
Old April 19th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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Its just funny. I left the 5-100 table with a nice hefty balance... and was like, "I bet if i goto the 15-250 table it will make me lose from the start... rather than start nice." low and behold, i lose the first several hands... the most discerning thing, however, is how i almost always lose splits. it practically sets me up to double my splits and the dealer gets a beautiful hand
something just seems fishy at the frequency of things.
  #4  
Old April 21st, 2005, 09:35 PM
raymondc raymondc is offline
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Unhappy

I am the same doubt with online casinos. Although I only played their practice mode. The cards dealt are very different from what I experienced in real casinos.

If Sands is not honest then many big online casinos are equally suspicious. Perhaps there's some "defense" algorithm built in to prevent players from winning too much? If everyone plays with perfect Basic Strategy with a systematic betting unit control it's really easy to win handsome money.

Has anyone actually been able to withdraw substantial amount of $ from these casinos? Say hundred times of your deposit? I really doubt.

Too many occasions where the dealers could turn a potential breaking hand into a 21. Never seen such thing happen in real casinos.

Just experiment with Pharaohs Casino's Practice Games. They say their One Deck Blackjack is in the players' advantage. But if you flat bet with the right Basic Strategy you will lose steadily.

I am still looking for a truly fair game online casino before I could confidential make a real deposit.
  #5  
Old April 21st, 2005, 09:53 PM
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KenSmith KenSmith is offline
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Default I've made plenty of money online

The first year I played online, I made over $50K profit. Most of that came from bonuses, but in that first year I was actually ahead of the games without bonuses. A lucky fluke, and quite surprising to me. Although I haven't seen a year like that since, I'm still way ahead of the game online.

I've withdrawn wins of over $5000 on several occasions. Coincidentally, in the last two days I've run a balance of $1000 to $5005 at Sky Kings.

Online casinos are in a tough spot. Since most gamblers lose, it's almost impossible for them to convince a skeptic that the games are fair. Making matters worse, unless you've played a LOT at land-based casinos you'll never understand just how bad a losing streak can be in a fair game. It's even worse online because the game moves so much faster. On those occasions at a land-based casino when you happen to lose 15 hands in a row, at least it takes a while. When that happens online, it all happens in about a minute and a half, and that makes a big difference in perception.

I can't possibly sway anyone's opinion, and I probably shouldn't try because it's a conflict of interest. Everyone has to make their own decision. What I can say is this: If you are overly concerned about the games online, you probably shouldn't play online. Why put yourself through that?

Last of all, the casino that started this thread happens to be my longest-running sponsor here, Sands of the Caribbean. That's no accident. I have the utmost faith in their integrity. I'm sorry your experience there has you concerned, but I continue to believe they are among the very best operators in the world.
  #6  
Old April 21st, 2005, 10:22 PM
raymondc raymondc is offline
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Dear Ken,

I was not skeptical of the fairness of online casinos before I experienced that even the BossMedia one-deck blackjack was so hard to beat. I can understand the long losing streaks of negative expectation games but with the BossMedia one-deck blackjack it should be a positive expectation game right? But it still feels like the advantage is on the house side.

Would you disclose a bit what methods in addition to Basic Strategy you used to win online? As I learned, card counting is not useful online so we are left with a negative edge Basic Strategy. There must be something more you have not taught us on this website. :D

Thank you!
  #7  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 08:55 AM
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KenSmith KenSmith is offline
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Three words are the key to winning online: Bonuses, Promotions, and Tournaments.

To make it work, you'll still need discipline and accuracy with basic strategy. That lets you minimize the losses at the game so that the other factors still make it profitable.

I don't see the candy store of a few years ago coming back anytime soon. Bonus requirements are a lot stricter, and in many cases they no longer allow blackjack or even video poker for the wagering requirements. Also, many of the bonuses are now "sticky" bonuses, which can't be withdrawn. They're more like a loan of bankroll. To get value from a loan (which you don't have to repay if you lose, of course), you should play very aggressively.

Anyway, while the golden age of online profits may be behind us, I'm still finding opportunities in various promotions.
  #8  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSmith
The first year I played online, I made over $50K profit. Most of that came from bonuses, but in that first year I was actually ahead of the games without bonuses. A lucky fluke, and quite surprising to me. Although I haven't seen a year like that since, I'm still way ahead of the game online.

I've withdrawn wins of over $5000 on several occasions. Coincidentally, in the last two days I've run a balance of $1000 to $5005 at Sky Kings.

Online casinos are in a tough spot. Since most gamblers lose, it's almost impossible for them to convince a skeptic that the games are fair. Making matters worse, unless you've played a LOT at land-based casinos you'll never understand just how bad a losing streak can be in a fair game. It's even worse online because the game moves so much faster. On those occasions at a land-based casino when you happen to lose 15 hands in a row, at least it takes a while. When that happens online, it all happens in about a minute and a half, and that makes a big difference in perception.

I can't possibly sway anyone's opinion, and I probably shouldn't try because it's a conflict of interest. Everyone has to make their own decision. What I can say is this: If you are overly concerned about the games online, you probably shouldn't play online. Why put yourself through that?

Last of all, the casino that started this thread happens to be my longest-running sponsor here, Sands of the Caribbean. That's no accident. I have the utmost faith in their integrity. I'm sorry your experience there has you concerned, but I continue to believe they are among the very best operators in the world.

Thats precisely why I went to Sands of the Carribean first when trying online gambling. I have lost a substantial amount of money there... i have never really had any nice wins. Today i deposited 200, the dealer consistently pushed my 19s and 20s (including doubles) and got lots of 21s... its strange how i consistently bet small amounts and win and large amounts and lose those suspiciousely... it just doesn't feel "random"
  #9  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:38 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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Actually, I tried Virtual City and Blackjack Ballroom casinos and they both seem like they are more legit. The games have actual details such as number of decks, etc... they have a 4-deck, vegas strip game which allows splitting up to 4 hands. I feel safer with the behavior of that game.
  #10  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 11:56 PM
Plexor Plexor is offline
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I just played there again... (the only reason i go back is because of your recommendation, Ken)
I lost continuousely. I have played a good number of times in the past few weeks (lost over $5400!) I have not had any significant wins... There have been a few nice winning streaks, but the past 5 times i have played there i have had nothing but ridiculous losses!!

I find it hard to believe this place is legit. I have made 26 deposits over the last few weeks. I just keep losing!! and tonight is my LAST deposit there. Its ridiculous since i shouldn't be losing this kind of money... Ken, your advice on your guide to not play unless you can afford to lose it.... I haven't lived up to it the best... its hard to lose and give up. Every time i have lost money at a real casino i have not given up and because of such i am up about $2000 at real casinos. I do walk out when I lose a certain amount which i set before hand... and then come back another day and win it back. At Sands of the Carribean, the last 10 times i have deposited, i have lost without making any real wins. I find it hard to believe this is a coincidence that the dealer keeps getting such amazing "backdoor" hands. No matter what kind of strategy I play, it still is in the dealer's favor... i split aces tonight again... on a $2 bet (fortunately it was min. bet!!! I dread splitting aces there)... and the dealer had a 6, but won against my 19 and 18... it just keeps doing that every time... and i split 8s, got 10's on both... dealer beats by 1... i keep having really *good* hands which are in my favor.... but the dealer keeps pulling miracles!!
After being sick of it for a while, i stray from basic strategy to try to change the "flow" of the cards to hopefully give me the good hands... that just doesn't mess the dealer up at all.. It is just ridiculous.

Its pretty interesting that a place can give 10% of the losses back and still give all those cash comps... with only a few blackjack players playing from time to time without rigging the games.... figure most people that play blackjack will know how to really play... it would be a rather hard time for such a casino. the wins/losses would go up and down like mad. its been rather consistent.. i have never had more than i started there.... not to mention i keep getting ridiculous situations where i have a 19, the dealer is showing a 9 (im like, i KNOW that will be an ace under there) 9/10 times it IS an ace... the same happens when i have 17.. pretty crazy. The cards just seem too.... controlled. And they seem to depend on the bets as well.

Its so easy for them to cheat also... they can say all they want about being regulated... but who regulates? and it would be so EASY for them to "pay off" the people "regulating".... just like how some companies pay off the Better Business Bureau to remove bad marks... This major computer manufacturing corporation did some dishonest things with rebates and 100's, if not 1000's of people complained to the BBB. Their profile showed this for a short while... Then out of the blue they end up having good reviews by the BBB!!! They tried to rip off 1000's of people... and BBB just swept it all under the rug!! That is a MAJOR organization for making sure people know whether businesses are legit or not. How easy would it be for a smaller organization to do the same if not worse in the online gambling industry? Cheating is something which isn't too hard to get away with in software... people do it all the time in online computer gaming... the really good cheaters are really hard to catch.... There are simple things that can be done to blackjack to make cheating hard to catch. Certain patterns arise, however... such as improbable things happening over and over. And conveniently for the casino, the player winning is not one of them! They get the player to win enough to build confidence and then spend larger amounts and *poof* you lose.

Last edited by Plexor; April 24th, 2005 at 12:31 AM.
 

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