Blackjack and Card Counting Forums -

Old April 24th, 2005, 01:49 AM
Plexor Plexor is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 27

Originally Posted by KenSmith
The first year I played online, I made over $50K profit. Most of that came from bonuses, but in that first year I was actually ahead of the games without bonuses. A lucky fluke, and quite surprising to me. Although I haven't seen a year like that since, I'm still way ahead of the game online.

I've withdrawn wins of over $5000 on several occasions. Coincidentally, in the last two days I've run a balance of $1000 to $5005 at Sky Kings.

Online casinos are in a tough spot. Since most gamblers lose, it's almost impossible for them to convince a skeptic that the games are fair. Making matters worse, unless you've played a LOT at land-based casinos you'll never understand just how bad a losing streak can be in a fair game. It's even worse online because the game moves so much faster. On those occasions at a land-based casino when you happen to lose 15 hands in a row, at least it takes a while. When that happens online, it all happens in about a minute and a half, and that makes a big difference in perception.

I can't possibly sway anyone's opinion, and I probably shouldn't try because it's a conflict of interest. Everyone has to make their own decision. What I can say is this: If you are overly concerned about the games online, you probably shouldn't play online. Why put yourself through that?

Last of all, the casino that started this thread happens to be my longest-running sponsor here, Sands of the Caribbean. That's no accident. I have the utmost faith in their integrity. I'm sorry your experience there has you concerned, but I continue to believe they are among the very best operators in the world.
They may be the best operators and Im sure they treat you well as an affiliate. But that doesn't mean they don't control things behind the scenes to make sure people don't win too much.

I have had some really bad losing streaks on real blackjack tables.. but it doesn't happen that often... and if i get up and goto another table or come back another day there is a good chance i won't hit another bad losing streak... at this online casino it is MUCH more of a struggle... One would think losing $5000 in mostly 5-100 bets would be enough to show anything.. I have rarely had to dig more than 500 to at least hit $500-1000 profits at some point during my real-casino gambling sessions.... online digging 5000 has never shown _any_ profits... and i have never really got close to recovering my losses when digging further.
Old April 25th, 2005, 09:41 AM
mdw mdw is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 70

I work with computers for a living. I think Ken had it right when he stated to not go to online casinos, if you do not trust the outcome. I agree, that it would be very easy to manipulate the outcome of each hand. I can also see where the game would be friendlier at the $5 table. Doing well, at the $5 table might encourage you to step up to the higher limit tables hook set. Your only way of judging the game's fairness is by comparing the brick casino outcome vs the online casino. In your case, it seems you the brick casino has a better outcome for you. In my personal opinion, the big name online casinos don't need to manipulate the cards. There is a lot of competition for the online dollars and a reputation of dishonesty would drive them out of business in a day. That being said, I personally would not feel comfortable playing with real money at an online casino. I don't trust computers.
Old April 26th, 2005, 03:58 PM
BlackDog BlackDog is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 68

I have never and will never play at any online casino...I too work with computers for a living and am all too familiar with intentional and even unintentional results from computers. However let me offer this...I have not even visited the site that is being discussed but might it depend on the game he is playing? Do the odds change, number of decks stuff like that when he changes tables as he said he is doing?

When I started to learn Blackjack seriously I started with one deck. Then realized that I would be playing against 6 decks. I had no idea what a difference it made. The dealer beat the crap out of me Luckily, my son was the dealer and I was in our living room and not at a casino learning this lesson.

Anyway I wonder if this might have anything to do with the outcome of Plexor's repeated visits...
Old April 28th, 2005, 12:05 AM
RavenSlay3r RavenSlay3r is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 35

Originally Posted by raymondc
Would you disclose a bit what methods in addition to Basic Strategy you used to win online? As I learned, card counting is not useful online so we are left with a negative edge Basic Strategy. There must be something more you have not taught us on this website.
Why can't one count online? If the game is fair, and dealt normally from a fixed number of decks I don't see why it would be a problem.

Old April 28th, 2005, 12:23 AM
KenSmith's Avatar
KenSmith KenSmith is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,118
Default Most shuffle every hand

Almost all online blackjack games shuffle after every hand.
The Sands of the Caribbean and the other Cryptologic casinos are actually one of the few exceptions. In the multi-player version only, they deal 2 decks out of 8 before shuffling. Counting can be used there, but obviously it takes a big spread and lots of risk to get a very small edge.
Old April 28th, 2005, 12:35 AM
Plexor Plexor is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 27

I have noticed the hard way =/ With the exception of my 10% back this month and few comps... i will never play online again.... now hopefully i can make up for my losses online at the RL casino (Treasure Island, Redwing MN) when i go in a few weeks.
Old May 23rd, 2005, 11:36 AM
cyclinggimpe cyclinggimpe is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 71

I found this site on the weekend while looking for some Blackjack strategies before I go to my local casino and play. I tried the strategy trainer which was pretty good. I then decided to try the Sands of the Caribbean games yesterday (Sunday) and started out pleased; but that pleasure quickly faded. I deposited my $50 and received a $50 bonus which I thought was great. I needed to wager $2000 before I could withdraw anything. I thought that I wouldn't be able to do that; but, I did and with a profit. However, I couldn't withdraw yet because I haven't received my pin number that's needed for withdrawing yet (which is to their advantage since I will and have wagered again). I went to bed happy and wanted to try my luck again today (Monday). Well, my view of the Sands quickly changed. On Sunday (yesterday) whenever the dealers up card was between 2 and 6 he would bust at least half the time; which is what I would expect. But today, whenever the dealers up card was between 2 and 6 he hardly busted or he would be one better than me. And just like Plexor stated, if I had a 19 or 20, the dealer would be one up on me.

I then exited the site and came back in practice mode and guess what. Whenever the dealers up card was between 2 and 6, he would bust almost half the time. That tells me there's something fishy going on here.

Now, I know there are runs of bad luck. But, when the dealer hardly busts with those low cards, that doesn't have anything to do with luck, that smells of a fix to me. I will probably send them an email about this (but I know they'll laugh) and let them know that there are a lot more land based casinos popping up around Canada (one just opened a few blocks from me that has real dealers); so, they've lost me as a customer for sure with their crooked dealings. What they do is no different than if you or I cheat at a casino.

I just don't see how this site can stand behind the Sands when they are this bad. Don't get me wrong, I find this site very informative and has helped me play Blackjack at my local casino better than I ever have before. But it's a shame that they back this site up. Unless they work for them????
Old June 30th, 2005, 05:05 PM
sir losealot sir losealot is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5

This thread has caught my attention...
I can't say that i trust online results but i can't provide scientific proof that it isn't fair either....yet.
This may get long....
I recently cashed out 80$ above my buy in at grand online.. they had a sticky bonus 200 percent on 100...i only had 60 in my neteller so i went in with that...neteller also offered a 75$ bonus for playing the grand.
My initial playing bk was 255.
The wr was 4x or 1020. In reality i am not a bonus abuser and i would rather buy in with a large enough bk and forfeit the bonus....i hate coupons. By the end of the night, approximately 6 hrs later i had wagered approximately 6500 but i was exactly where this other poster was.
The deal felt bad and i couldn't win a double and every 18 was faced by a 19 and every 19 by a dealer 20. By this point if i got a bj it was voided by a dealer bj.
During the course of the evening i had managed to move my bk to 290(early on when i was hitting really good cards). After i managed to cover my wr i started to see some wicked card results and watched my bk go to 140( remember that this is a sticky bonus).
My betting method allowed me to recover to 255 but i was never able to go above that.
That betting method is based on the same concept as card counting where the counter wins more money on fewer hands won. But my method doesn't involve counting cards at all (which could be a very scary prospect for fair online gaming)if every player started betting my way.
I cashed out from grand with the neteller profit and 5$ bets ranged from 1 to 5$.
Strangely enough i get the same results when playing the engine on this site.
There comes a point where it almost feels has though the computer picks up on your playing style and dishes out results my style of play....and i've played countless thousands of hands here...i have to have a bigger bet on the table when i get winners, but i also have to stay away from the table max or avoid the risk of ruin on my account.....but even on this site (which makes no sense at all since ken smith owes me nothing if i win against the engine), i come to a point where i know i will never win unless or until i bring down the size of my ante.
And if i do then i win and win and win...but this defeats my program since i need to have a bigger ante on the table when i get a serious series of wins......
The approach is much deeper than what i let on and wouldn't do well in a land casino since i need to play those 1000's of hands...although it would do great if i had the bk to cover about 50k and i could bet no less than green and win when i'm on black or pink.

I have gone even has far as keeping the bet against the engine at 5 which is the minimum allowed and keeping a scorecard of my anticipated bet. When i do this i seem to win consistently.

Maybe my mother was correct when she warned that the devil is in control of the cards......otherwise it may be that the devil is in control of the programmer and although this sherade that we play and that is still called virtual blackjack is not blackjack at all but a numbers game programmed to show drawings on command....the drawings come after the numbers are decided which is not true in real play where the drawings or symbols are worth exactly the same as the number of the card.

If the numbers are truly rigged then we are all nothing but pawns to the operators. Somehow if this is true then someone should be fighting for regulation and pretty much the entire circus should be outlawed since it would all add up to theft and not gambling.
I still want to think of myself of as a gambler and not a chump to some criminal organization.

Lastly, this is where i get my biggest laugh. It comes from watching the Las Vegas series on tv.......why is the casino always getting robbed. They are so protective of their dollar. Lots of beautiful weirdoes there.
And why is the online casino so gung ho on warning us that they will not tolerate abusive players.

Don't get me wrong....i go back to where i started...i'm not certain that it isn't fair gaming. I can assure you that i believe the planet is spherical and not flat. And i really believe that there are ways other than card counting to win more money on fewer hands...perhaps more money on fewer bets in crap or baccarat. I have to proove it to myself without ending up in the desert???????....or giving up whatever i have left to someone who may be a little less than honest...will i play again online....

More than likely because of my obsession, but i will spend much more time on this engine or with a real pack of cards and a scorepad.
Maybe the world is still flat....if someone was able to profit from it then i am certain that they would crucify the round earth believers to keep their supremacy.
Old July 3rd, 2005, 02:46 AM
Naddo 21 Naddo 21 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA PA
Posts: 6
Default Ouch!

While I have yet to try my hand on-line, I am interested, but concerned over both safety and security issues as well as being cheated.
I've read the latest message threads and none but Ken's are encouraging. And while Ken is a pro and I'm a complete newbie at all this, It's really sounding to me like on-line is a no-no,

Ah but I'm still so tempted to try it out...

If anybody else could please share their 'POSITIVE' experiences with on-line 21 to help put my doubts and fears at ease, that would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks all, and Ken, this is a 'GREAT' site and service to us all, kudos!!!
Old July 3rd, 2005, 10:48 AM
sir losealot sir losealot is offline
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5
Talking GrandOnline update...

This may encourage you a bit Naddo21...
My last post stated that i had put in a request to cash out a winner from Grand...i had some work to and all before the request could be processed and i got impatient so i reversed the cash my account showed 145$. At this point i have no bonus money to help me out. I was expecting the worst and at first i got exactly that. I played bj and watched my 145 go to 85 and then came some magic.....i mean this is where it gets weird...
i started to win and win and my account to 250 with bj play and then tried some jacks or better for a change......g'odd behold i hit the royal on a nickel machine in jacks or better and now my account was at 466. I figured i'd try for an even 500 with bj and got it ....again i did a cash out request but changed my mind and reversed the process because i need 600 for something personal.
I reached 600 a few hours later.
At this moment i am in cash out for 600 and change. I am waiting for the cash out to be processed. They have my id so it should take less than 1 week according to their site.
I will post again when i see the 600 in my wallet.
Just for security i am keeping screenshots of my big wins and other pertinent increases in my bk so that i can trash them if they screw me over somehow....
If i see my cash on the other hand then i will give them their props and tell everyone to go for it....


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 AM.

Forum Software vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2011 Bayview Strategies LLC