if i dont vary my bet, but use playing indices, then shud i use a system w/ high PE?

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

hi-lo has a HORRIBLE playing efficiency (.51 via http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm), and there are many other systems with higher playing efficiencies on that list, so does that mean i should just go with one of those (and completely ignore the BC)? since im probably one of the only flat betting card counters, this is hard to get a good answer on.. simple as this, which card counting system would be best for a flat better that wongs and uses playing indices? and before you tell me how i need to vary my bets and how important that is (trust me, i know), i have a $1000 bankroll, so think about that.. i just want to flat bet the table minimum, wong, and use playing indexes, and im assuming that changes the entire perspective on "which counting systems are good" when your flat betting.. thanks.. oh ya, and also, would using a system just for the insurance bet bet a good idea? i mean the insurance bet is like 30% of the profit from playing decisions i think..

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

simple as this, which card counting system would be best for a flat better that wongs and uses playing indices? and before you tell me how i need to vary my bets and how important that is (trust me, i know), i have a $1000 bankroll, so think about that.. i just want to flat bet the table minimum, wong, and use playing indexes, and im assuming that changes the entire perspective on "which counting systems are good" when your flat betting..

Ask yourself if you really care that the "better" system will allow you to lose your entire (I assume 100-unit) bankroll in 2X hours instead of X hours.

As a flat-betting card-counter who "wongs" in an unspecified game in an unspecified mannner using playing indices, and I don't mean to be whatever, just my worthless opinion, and feel free to disagree, but I don't think any system will lead to a positive EV game.

I think you know this from what I've read.

If pressed, maybe I'd say go with KO for 1-2 decks and Hi-Lo for 6-8 decks.

So, have fun using whatever system, but I don't think your results will be much different than "random" results.

[jack,jackson]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

hi-lo has a HORRIBLE playing efficiency (.51 via http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm), and there are many other systems with higher playing efficiencies on that list, so does that mean i should just go with one of those (and completely ignore the BC)? since im probably one of the only flat betting card counters, this is hard to get a good answer on.. simple as this, which card counting system would be best for a flat better that wongs and uses playing indices? and before you tell me how i need to vary my bets and how important that is (trust me, i know), i have a $1000 bankroll, so think about that.. i just want to flat bet the table minimum, wong, and use playing indexes, and im assuming that changes the entire perspective on "which counting systems are good" when your flat betting.. thanks.. oh ya, and also, would using a system just for the insurance bet bet a good idea? i mean the insurance bet is like 30% of the profit from playing decisions i think..

If your looking for a point blank answer, which it sounds like you are. Well then here you go! Check it out! Heres a similiar system to uston APC. But with a somewhat stronger PE. This is as good as it gets for PE. unless you use the esoteric multi-params. So here it is.

11123221-1-3(PE. .70)(PC.997) NOTE: The PC. is the potential one could acheive through keeping several sidecounts of specified cards that reflect their average value of the same cards in maincount. BJ math analyzer 3.5

The PE vs the number of decks in a play.

Okay, keep in mind im only speculating here! But heres how i believe it works.
Lets use 1,2,4,6,8 decks for our example and lets also say each of these games(for conveinience) has a dead-even house edge. 0.00 off the top.
Now, using the above count which has a PE. of .70

You will divide the PE. for the numbers your playing against.
I.E (EV) 0.00 house edge. + means you have the edge.
1D .70+
2D .35+
4D .17.5+
6D .116
8D .088+

Note: a secondary count can be added later on for betting.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Ask yourself if you really care that the "better" system will allow you to lose your entire (I assume 100-unit) bankroll in 2X hours instead of X hours.

As a flat-betting card-counter who "wongs" in an unspecified game in an unspecified mannner using playing indices, and I don't mean to be whatever, just my worthless opinion, and feel free to disagree, but I don't think any system will lead to a positive EV game.

I think you know this from what I've read.

If pressed, maybe I'd say go with KO for 1-2 decks and Hi-Lo for 6-8 decks.

So, have fun using whatever system, but I don't think your results will be much different than "random" results.

people assume im trying to make money, i am not, i am trying to break even.. i play at a .43% house edge, and if i used a count just for insurance, and it lowered the house edge by like .23%, i would be fine with that, but i need to do something, because counting came pretty easy to me, and its a waste not to use it, even if your flat betting, because the majority of my wins are going to come from wonging obviously, but then i need something else too.. there has to be a system out there that is best for flat bet wonging with playing indices, and i dont want something that "will do" or "not much difference", but at the same time i dont want something hard, but i never said i want something easy, because hi-lo came fast to me, and i could do a 2 lvl count if it was like 0 1 1 2 1 0 0 0 -1 -1

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by jack,jackson

If your looking for a point blank answer, which it sounds like you are. Well then here you go! Check it out! Heres a similiar system to uston APC. But with a somewhat stronger PE. This is as good as it gets for PE. unless you use the esoteric multi-params. So here it is.

11123221-1-3(PE. .70)(PC.997) NOTE: The PC. is the potential one could acheive through keeping several sidecounts of specified cards that reflect their average value of the same cards in maincount. BJ math analyzer 3.5

The PE vs the number of decks in a play.

Okay, keep in mind im only speculating here! But heres how i believe it works.
Lets use 1,2,4,6,8 decks for our example and lets also say each of these games(for conveinience) has a dead-even house edge. 0.00 off the top.
Now, using the above count which has a PE. of .70

You will divide the PE. for the numbers your playing against.
I.E (EV) 0.00 house edge. + means you have the edge.
1D .70+
2D .35+
4D .17.5+
6D .116
8D .088+

Note: a secondary count can be added later on for betting.

thats too hard for me, and probably most others too.. what im thinking is, would it be easier to use a simple insurance count and then just go with basic strategy with maybe a few indexes? what im saying is, if im going to take off lets say .1 off the house edge by using hi-lo count with 10 indexes, but i will take .07 off the house by using a simple insurance count, that would be easier.. but then again i still need a good count for wonging.. damn this is hard..

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

what about unbalanced 10s system? it looks perfect, it has a high PE and a 1.0 IC.. everything is 1, 10 is -2.. that sounds perfect for somebody who is flat betting.. or could i make up my own unbalanced 10s system, by not counting the ace, just doing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 -2, that way its balanced, and would work the same as hi lo

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

there has to be a system out there that is best for flat bet wonging with playing indices

A good level 2 system like Zen or Revere Advanced Point Count will work great for that.

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

what about unbalanced 10s system? it looks perfect, it has a high PE and a 1.0 IC.. everything is 1, 10 is -2.. that sounds perfect for somebody who is flat betting..

But it is bad for Wonging. You still need a system with a good BC so that you know when to leave the table. That is where the majority of your advantage is coming from so BC should be very important to you.

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

…and before you tell me how i need to vary my bets and how important that is (trust me, i know), i have a $1000 bankroll, so think about that..

That’s a tough situation. Remember that just because you are playing a break even game doesn’t mean that you won’t go broke. In fact, unless you are playing with an advantage then you are guaranteed to go broke at some point. If you’re really worried about losing your bankroll then you should want to play with the biggest advantage you can. Playing conservatively might feel safer in the short run but you’re pretty much sealing your fate.

If you’re just playing for fun then don’t worry about it. You’re doing fine. Learn how to get all the comps you can and don’t worry about losing your money. If you’re playing a losing or break even game then you’ll lose your money no matter what system you use.

-Sonny-

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by Sonny

A good level 2 system like Zen or Revere Advanced Point Count will work great for that.



But it is bad for Wonging. You still need a system with a good BC so that you know when to leave the table. That is where the majority of your advantage is coming from so BC should be very important to you.



That’s a tough situation. Remember that just because you are playing a break even game doesn’t mean that you won’t go broke. In fact, unless you are playing with an advantage then you are guaranteed to go broke at some point. If you’re really worried about losing your bankroll then you should want to play with the biggest advantage you can. Playing conservatively might feel safer in the short run but you’re pretty much sealing your fate.

If you’re just playing for fun then don’t worry about it. You’re doing fine. Learn how to get all the comps you can and don’t worry about losing your money. If you’re playing a losing or break even game then you’ll lose your money no matter what system you use.

-Sonny-

ill put it this way, i want to be as serious and make as much money as i can with a $1000 bankroll.. if i spread even 1-4, i would most likely lose that bankroll much faster than if i didnt spread.. im so pissed that the majestic star stopped the $3 tables back in winter, otherwise i would be spreading like 1-3.. i just think that wonging + insurance + a few indices could get me near even, then throw in comps and im ahead.. let me ask this tho, if i play only when the RUNNING count is positive (hi-lo), and i play basic strategy, how much would that cut off from a .43% house edge on 6 decks? are we talking more than .1%?

[chichow]

Honestly I think you may be too close. I mean even if you talk about a .1 diff, what happens if you make even one mistake an hour.

Can you get your bankroll up to 2000 before playing more?

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by chichow

Honestly I think you may be too close. I mean even if you talk about a .1 diff, what happens if you make even one mistake an hour.

Can you get your bankroll up to 2000 before playing more?

remember, i play only when the running count is positive (tc of +1/6), which means the worst house edge i can possible play at is .35% (i detailed how i got that in another post).. and i think people misunderstand what i mean, i literally mean the casinos i play at will let me go out for 5 hands, in for 2, out for 3, in for 1, out for 4, in for 3, out for 9, in for 7, all day, but im sure if i played only at true count of +2, then they might say something as i would hardly be playing at all, and im getting comps as if ive been playing the entire time im pretty sure.. anyways back to your question.. im playing with money i can and cant lose, its hard to explain.. my parents are supporting me (food, insurance, gas, etc), im gonna need a new car soon, and my dad would let me pay him back for the car, but alls i have in my bank account right now is like $1500, and i make about $600/month, so put that all into perspective.. so its like, i will live the same lifestyle regardless, but at the same time ive never had more than $4000 in my entire life (i would have like $10k right now but i got a dui), and it would be nice to be able to pay my dad some money, which i was doing but i told him it would be better if i saved up for a car.. see how it is? so ya, i could play as if i had a bankroll of $2000, but once you go down 2k, its gonna take a long time for you to get that back, and you risk going even further