Shuffling machine question

[Marsha]

Im new to this site, so i apologize if this is a worn out topic . I was recently playing in a washington state casino, where shuffling machines are used. Session after session, table after table, day after day, the dealer almost always had a 10 or above showing. I would think it occurred 7 to 8 times per 10 hands. It was not normal and was noticed by more than a few frustated players. The dealers could'nt explain it, and appeared to just accept it as part of the game. Is it possible that something fishy can occur with shuffling machines? I know that loosing creates suspicion, but this was way beyond a normal distribution of cards. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Marsha

Im new to this site, so i apologize if this is a worn out topic . I was recently playing in a washington state casino, where shuffling machines are used. Session after session, table after table, day after day, the dealer almost always had a 10 or above showing. I would think it occurred 7 to 8 times per 10 hands. It was not normal and was noticed by more than a few frustated players. The dealers could'nt explain it, and appeared to just accept it as part of the game. Is it possible that something fishy can occur with shuffling machines? I know that loosing creates suspicion, but this was way beyond a normal distribution of cards. Anyone have any thoughts?

welcome Marsha!

probably nothing "fishy" is going on at all. just the luck of the draw. next time, it could be you getting all the tens.
was the dealer using cards freshly shuffled right out of the machine, or was a machine shuffling cards that were then placed in a shoe?

[Marsha]

The dealer would place one set in the machine, after taking another set out and placing them in a shoe.Your probably right! It happened every session for days. It was very unusual. Iv'e never seen cards fall with such consistency for that long a period.

[RJT]

It was just a shuffler not a contineous shuffler then and the odd are very slim (on either) that you were getting cheated. Think of it this way, the pack was in the shoe so cards weren't getting moved. That being the case, the machine may be able to give the dealer a high card on the first round, but predicting what all the players are going to do with any accuracy is impossible, especially as it would need to predict with 100% accuracy to keep it's pattern and ensure the dealer all those high cards.

RJT.

[Marsha]

Thank you, so much for probability. I'll have to read the thread on probabilities. I think i saw one. I've tracked and recorded probabilities for over two years now. I'm not a mathematician, but i've never seen anything so extreme. Crazy game!

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

i notice this too.. the dealer should have a high card 1/3 of the time, but it seems like half of the time to me, everytime i go to the casino, but its just selective memory

[Marsha]

Interesting insight. You may have something there! I have an easier time applying selective memory to doubling 11 and being hit with an ace. That happens often. It's harder to apply selective memory, when your being pounded down with with face cards shoe after shoe. Nonetheless, good food for thought. Thank you.

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by Marsha

Interesting insight. You may have something there! I have an easier time applying selective memory to doubling 11 and being hit with an ace. That happens often. It's harder to apply selective memory, when your being pounded down with with face cards shoe after shoe. Nonetheless, good food for thought. Thank you.

you know selective memory is a bad thing in this case right? in over half of anything you are talking about, most people remember the negative over the positive, and this is no different.. im confused when you said "It's harder to apply selective memory, when your being pounded down with with face cards".. what do you mean its hard to "apply it".. you dont apply anything, it just happens, and when you say pounded with face cards, im sure you mean busting.. in case you dont know what selective memory is, ill give a classic example of it happening at least every 10 hands.. somebody says "you made the table lose because you split your 9's" and then later on you do it 2 more times, but both those times the dealer busts, and then the 4th time you go to do it, the person says "dont split your 9's again, it didnt work last time and it never works".. notice how it worked 2 out of the 3 times but the person insulting you remembers 0 for 1? thats selective memory.. ploppys think that if something works 8 out of 10 times, that proves it works, they dont believe you need to do something millions of times to get an accurate telling

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

i notice this too.. the dealer should have a high card 1/3 of the time, but it seems like half of the time to me, everytime i go to the casino, but its just selective memory

When you think high cards in this situation, do not forget those aces. So a dealer will show a 10 or ace, 5/13 times.
Now to add to your selective memory, many times we are sitting with a stiff and the dealer showing a 7-9 will also feel to us like the dealer is showing a 10. If you add all of this together, the mental effect might be caused by the fact that 8 of 13 times the dealer will show a card 7 or higher.

Now for the rare case of actually running into a cheating method.
Make sure the dealer is turning the same card every time. The procedure is generally for the dealer to turn his first card. Any dealer who sometimes turns one and other times turns the other could be easily cheating you and increasing the number of times he shows a 10. This is very rare and easily detected, but if I play 400 hours in a year, I will see it just about every year.

ihate17

[Marsha]

Mr.SilentBob, I used the example of doubling 11 with an ace draw, since it seems to happen frequently. I can see how that would be remembered as happening all the time, when actually it happens sometimes. When i refer to being pounded with face cards, i refer to the dealers upcard . I have a hard time believing, that selective memory applies to seeing a dealers face card ,so many hours in a row. It was not normal. From what i have read so far on this site, there is very little about blackjack, that can be considered normal. It is what it is, and that means loose. Correct me if i am wrong, or direct me to the winners circle. So far, it appears the only way to win, is to be a mathmatical genious, or dont play. Thanks for the response!