Shuffle Tracking

[JoeV]

Alright now I am a bit confused. After all the smoke clears on this thread I have the question can you shuffletrack or not nowadays? I was thinking about buying Snyder's shuffeltrack cookbook but am under the impression that its a little dated now, is this true? Is there anything I can do to practice at home just trying to track cards until I can learn the math in how to use it?

[blackchipjim]

Yes joev there is a Santa Claus and it is possible gain a great advantage. All the talk about the dilutions and evs with the tracks are part of tracking game. Arnold Synder gives a good start on this theory in his books and it's good reading. He does explain that it takes alot of ablility and practice to be good and I agree. I started this thread with the purpose of discussion and theories and that's what we got. I track or practice at the casinos as added amusement. My skill wouldn't net me any real gain at this point but things could change. I would like to thank all the gentlemen that added to this thread regardless of input. blackchipjim

[RJT]

Hey Joe,
The shffle tracker's cookbook is the best material on the market about shuffle tracking and the information's as useable as it ever was. Even when the book had just been released the majority of shuffles were of a level of complexity that shuffle tracking wasn't going to give you enough of an advantage by itself to warrent moving over to it and away from counting. The best way to deal with shuffle tracking is to treat it - as i stated before - as opportunistic. There are great games out there for the tracker, but you have to look to find them and more to the point, you have to know what you're looking for. Sometimes you'll have to travel to get to them, but when you find a game that you can beat with a substantial advantage and you are good enough to beat it, all the waiting is worthwhile.

RJT.

[Sonny]

This post was buried at the end of the other thread so I thought I’d liberate it. It should get more responses this way.

-Sonny-

[RJT]

Originally Posted by Sonny

This post was buried at the end of the other thread so I thought I’d liberate it. It should get more responses this way.

-Sonny-

I thought i was going nuts. When i went to reply it was in the other thread, then it wasn't and i had no idea where i was
Hopefully, from this point on dicourse can be polite and possibly even friendly.

RJT.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by JoeV

Alright now I am a bit confused. After all the smoke clears on this thread I have the question can you shuffletrack or not nowadays? I was thinking about buying Snyder's shuffeltrack cookbook but am under the impression that its a little dated now, is this true? Is there anything I can do to practice at home just trying to track cards until I can learn the math in how to use it?

You can shuffle track. The problem is that most shuffles create sufficient dilution that if you were to rely on it as your primary technique, your win rate will be lower than that of a good aggressive counting game. With every shuffle there is a maximum theoretical win rate you can extract from it due to the dilution, even if you were to use a computer, and no amount of practice will get you beyond that point.

Sometimes you can find a very weak shuffle or a dealer shuffling improperly thus giving a shuffle tracker a large advantage, but these are uncommon opportunities on the order of holecarding opportunities which take a lot of work to find, and should only be discussed privately.

[Bojack1]

Originally Posted by JoeV

Alright now I am a bit confused. After all the smoke clears on this thread I have the question can you shuffletrack or not nowadays? I was thinking about buying Snyder's shuffeltrack cookbook but am under the impression that its a little dated now, is this true? Is there anything I can do to practice at home just trying to track cards until I can learn the math in how to use it?

I'm going to be as honest as I can with you here Joe, the odds are against you that you will perform shuffletracking with any degree of success in a casino. That will be one of the first things you read when you buy Snyder's book (which I do recommend), and its a painful truth to most. That being said, there is a small chance you can become one of the few that actually pull it off. As stated by others before even if you are able to perform it successfully it will not replace counting. It will however enhance your overall game and present you with some great opportunistic advantages.

As far as practicing tracking I think the book will help you with some drills. One of the things that I do is color one edge of a slug of cards, usually 1/4 deck but it doesn't hurt to do various other sizes also. Keeping them together put them in the pile of 6 or 8 decks, whichever size shoe you usually play. Make note of where the cards are and then turn the pile away from you so yo can't see the marked cards. Now cut to the exact point where you think they start. At first you will see that even though its only been a couple of seconds since you knew where they are your cut will not be exact. Practice until it is, give or take a couple. Its better to be a little heavy with your cut if you're not perfect though, so you don't cut out any of your packet.

When you you've got that down try placing the cards in the stack again and then shuffling using the same exact shuffle the casino you play in uses. You may want to observe the actual shuffle before you guess how they do it for a true gauge on how it works. Once you have the shuffle down, watch your colored cards as you shuffle to see where they end up. Once you are familiar with some basic shuffle characteristics, turn the cards so you can't see the marked ones and try cutting to where you think they are. They may be split up and diluted quite a bit sometimes, but thats okay as long as you can recognize that. Not playing a bad track is just as important if not more as cutting to a good one. This is all very basic stuff I'm telling you, but it gives you a good visual on whats happening. You will need more detailed info to actually play a shuffletrack, but thats what the books are for. Also I'm sure along the way as you have questions there will be others to help you out.

[21forme]

George C. also wrote a shuffle tracking book, self-published, I believe. Any comments from those who have read it?

[RJT]

I've got George C's book. It's really not worth the money. The information in it is fine, just very basic. My problem with it was more to do with the fact that i didn't even pay twice as much for the Cookbook and it provided at least 10x the information in a far clearer and more in deapth fashion. If you're that interested, get the Cookbook.

RJT.

[21forme]

Thanks. I think I will...