Keying 21+3

[jimmtech]

I am aware of a post a long time describing how one could count suits and bet 21+3 at a particular "suit TC" - ideally this would work best with a team at the table so all suits could be counted.

I was thinking - if one could play 21+3 heads up, and remember the 2 cards under a match (numeric or suited), seeing the 2 key cards return after the shuffle, you could be guaranteed a 9x payout IF this sequence stays intact. (this would work with heads up, and the dealer dealing his first card face up)

Soooooo, is anyone aware of current shuffles that might allow 5 card patterns to remain intact?

Replies appreciated!

[RJT]

Originally Posted by jimmtech

Soooooo, is anyone aware of current shuffles that might allow 5 card patterns to remain intact?

Not to rain on your parade here - hell i've never even encountered a 21+3 game - but this is one aspect of AP that should never ever under any circumstances be discussed on a message board.
If i was to say that Casino X and Y have a shuffle that you can use this technique on, guess which casinos aren't going to have those shuffles next week. Any information i post would become out of date very quickly and i would destroy an opportunity for myself in the process.

RJT.

[jimmtech]

I am not soliciting any particular casino, I guess I am asking if there is style of shuffling as such. But I see your point that such discoveries are best left ouf of public - Thanks.

PS 21+3 is a 9x payout side bet that I have seen in MS, MO, IN, IL

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by jimmtech

Soooooo, is anyone aware of current shuffles that might allow 5 card patterns to remain intact?

Technically any shuffle will disturb the pattern. You are better off analyzing a particular shuffle to find beatable sequences instead of the other way around. Once you know the characteristics of the shuffle you will know which cards to sequence and how to steer them. It is easier to find a weak shuffle and develop a strategy to exploit it than to develop a technique and search for a shuffle that will allow it to work.

-Sonny-

[weavin42]

Here in Kansas city, all of the games with 21+3 are shuffled with ASMs. One casino in town will hand shuffle 6 decks if they are busy because they open tables with broken shuffle machines (and usually tables without sidebets). However, it is unlikely that you could exploit the shuffle unless the first pack of cards was all of one suit (you could analyze the shuffle to see what the exact composition would need to be to overcome the house edge). The shuffle has far to many strips to key. I don't know about anywhere else in the state or the others mentioned.

I'm still "working" on my code for the suit count for 21+3.

Josh

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

Originally Posted by RJT

Not to rain on your parade here - hell i've never even encountered a 21+3 game - but this is one aspect of AP that should never ever under any circumstances be discussed on a message board.
If i was to say that Casino X and Y have a shuffle that you can use this technique on, guess which casinos aren't going to have those shuffles next week. Any information i post would become out of date very quickly and i would destroy an opportunity for myself in the process.

RJT.

oh god, not this again.. seriously, if you believe in this, then you must also not talk about which casinos have good penetration, good rules, or anything.. lets just go the mile and not talk about card counting at all! chances are you could say that the pit at 6pm at blah casino isnt very good and that you cap your bets there all the time, and you will be there at 7pm every wednesday, and i bet nothing would happen.. this is a forum to learn, not to say "well it is possible and i know how, but i cant tell you"

i know some people will disagree with me on this, but i think there are way too many paranoid people on here, and perhaps a few of them like to be like that as it makes them feel more important like they are doing something illegal and sneaky, i dunno

[KenSmith]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

i know some people will disagree with me on this, but i think there are way too many paranoid people on here, and perhaps a few of them like to be like that as it makes them feel more important like they are doing something illegal and sneaky, i dunno

One day you'll understand.

As much as I like to foster a community where beneficial information can be shared, there really is information that is too valuable to share in public. Weak shuffles, weak dealers, strong promos, etc. The plays are out there, but outting them in public will destroy them. In many cases, paranoia is good.

[RJT]

Originally Posted by SilentBob420BMFJ

oh god, not this again.. seriously, if you believe in this, then you must also not talk about which casinos have good penetration, good rules, or anything.. lets just go the mile and not talk about card counting at all! chances are you could say that the pit at 6pm at blah casino isnt very good and that you cap your bets there all the time, and you will be there at 7pm every wednesday, and i bet nothing would happen.. this is a forum to learn, not to say "well it is possible and i know how, but i cant tell you"

i know some people will disagree with me on this, but i think there are way too many paranoid people on here, and perhaps a few of them like to be like that as it makes them feel more important like they are doing something illegal and sneaky, i dunno

You know Bob, i ignore most of the rubbish you come out with, but seriously - when you don't have a clue what you're talking about, just clam up or ask a legitimate question rather than spewing forth nonsense onto the board. Making statements like the ones above it's no wonder other posters get irritated with you.
What a beautiful over extension of the logic used, with all the flaws intact so you pretty much invalidate your argument yourself. Some things we have nothing to lose by discussing, the specifics of many techniques are already out there and readily avalible for anyone prepared to do the research. However discussing locations and specific real world opportunites would and has lost players a lot.
As Ken said, the best opportunites don't get discussed online for good reasons. Firstly they can be shut down by the casino and secondly when a really good opportunity turns up, the real pros move in quickly. Their intention is to play it hard, knowing it'll burn out soon enough. That's fair enough and it's exactly the best way to play these situations, but do you think they are going to return the favour and post for you the next big advantage they find so you can have a piece of the pie?

RJT.