Why I liked Ben Mezrich's book

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Assuming the math is true (I kinda doubt all the violence and mayhem was exactly as described) in "Busting Vegas" I may have learned more in this quick read than anything read so far on this forum.

At least about deck sequencing anyway.

Plus Seymon Dukach's "Afterward" at the end seems to corroborate much of the techniques that Mezrich reports on the MIT team.

Why did i like the book? Because I like GOOD WRITERS who can captivate a reader. The author explains things well. And I like playing 21.

Doesn't hurt that Mezrich includes plenty of descriptions of boobs and such. While reading it seemed that I could almost smell Allie's perfume. Or maybe even a few of her special body parts.

F'ing idiots Seymon and Victor were to jump back in that burning plane though.

And besides I'm from Boston originally. In a past life.

Congratulations Red Sox!

[zengrifter]

On the other hand, I found several important mistakes, so far in the first 30 or so pages.

Also, important to note that Johnny C has gone on record that the sequencing and tracking never worked well and the MIT team abandoned the effort. zg

[rogue1]

yeah-johnny and his wife said they made most all the bucks just counting hardly even using imdices much less shuffle tracking, etc.

[RJT]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

On the other hand, I found several important mistakes, so far in the first 30 or so pages.

Also, important to note that Johnny C has gone on record that the sequencing and tracking never worked well and the MIT team abandoned the effort. zg

There are loads of mistakes in that book.
As to Johnny C - when he stated that he was referring to the SI team, the predacessor to the teams in both Mezrich's books and was never overly successful with the advanced techniques or any other techniques falling far below their EV which combined with poorly weighted pay scales eventually lead to the demise of the team.
Mike Aponte's team was - from my understanding of it - set up by Johnny C, who hand picked players from the reminents of SI. They used a very limited amount of the advanced techniques and focused very heavily on counting and longevity.
Semyon set up another team at that point - i believe exclusively from Johnny C although i could be wrong about that - that focused more on the advanced techniques. They did do a lot of counting, but they weren't nearly as concerned with players burning out and focused less on cover. I don't know how successful they actually were, but from what i've heard, the best way you could describe it is that they had huge swings - as is to be expected when you play high variance games.

RJT.

[zengrifter]

I got the impression, from the first book - Bringing Down House - that Semyon's team may have ripped off his backers. zg

[toastblows]

in Busting Vegas, wasnt Semyons team selected outside as the "elite" of SI to do advance tecniques? Because Mezrich portrays it that those 30-40 people who showed up, Seymon only worked with the 6-7 people exclusively. then you watch that breaking vegas history channel deal and Seymon is on the SI team that makes a killing and loses it all "just counting". Its hard to follow who is doing what if you read both books and watch that show....i believe mike apontes recollections over all of it. (although seymon says he later formed his own team after SI dissovled and played into the late 1990s on that show, but in the book he is being recruited for this elite team that seems to be after the time of SI since it states 1993 or something...**** im confused now)

It is interesting though that someone comments in breaking vegas(show) that a wedding was comp'd at ceasar's palace...as the most extreme comp...and that red hair fat dude in busting vegas has his wedding comp'd in the book..... ......

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by toastblows

then you watch that breaking vegas history channel deal and Seymon is on the SI team that makes a killing and loses it all "just counting".

Mickey Rosa and his wife remember things a little differently:

“We recruited about 40 people, and we won pretty well at the beginning. We won $700,000 and then lost back almost all of it.”

“We were on the West Coast, and we were just card counting and winning. The guys on the East Coast were playing all these high e.v. and high c.e. games…We kept hearing from the East Coast guys, "We lost $100,000 but we had tremendous c.e." We didn’t want to hear from the East Coast. We called them the ‘least coast.’”

Originally Posted by toastblows

i believe mike apontes recollections over all of it.

Considering Mezrich’s version is all second hand, that would be a good idea. I think Mike said it best:

“One thing that struck me was that "Breaking Vegas" was based on Strategic Investments and the show made it seem as if everything was great on SI. They glossed over the fact that in the end Strategic Investments failed, and didn't make much money.”

“Advanced strategy techniques sound sexy and appealing, but they are very difficult to execute, and these days the opportunities to employ these strategies are few and far between in the US. That was one of the downfalls of Strategic Investments. We began to stray away from card counting and we got enamored with advanced strategies. The problem with advanced strategies is that there are a number of variables that you have no control over, such as how a dealer shuffles. When you make a mistake with card steering and shuffle tracking it is far more costly than being off by one on the running count.”

There is also the testimony of our resident expert:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...8881#post28881

-Sonny-

[RJT]

Originally Posted by toastblows

in Busting Vegas, wasnt Semyons team selected outside as the "elite" of SI to do advance tecniques? Because Mezrich portrays it that those 30-40 people who showed up, Seymon only worked with the 6-7 people exclusively. then you watch that breaking vegas history channel deal and Seymon is on the SI team that makes a killing and loses it all "just counting". Its hard to follow who is doing what if you read both books and watch that show....i believe mike apontes recollections over all of it. (although seymon says he later formed his own team after SI dissovled and played into the late 1990s on that show, but in the book he is being recruited for this elite team that seems to be after the time of SI since it states 1993 or something...**** im confused now)

It is interesting though that someone comments in breaking vegas(show) that a wedding was comp'd at ceasar's palace...as the most extreme comp...and that red hair fat dude in busting vegas has his wedding comp'd in the book..... ......

Semyon played on the SI team and it was primarily him pushing for the high variance plays that basically buckled the team. They had “great CE”, but the variance was so high and even a slight mistake not only punished you majorly on your CE but also increased your variance again – dramatically. Top this off with the fact that the pay scales were based on CE. So while you had players using counting techniques and grinding out a good win getting paid according to their CE, you had players using these high CE techniques that weren’t winning anything – in fact doing the opposite - and still getting huge paydays – far larger than those who were actually generating the wins because of this high CE. Basically the win and much of the bankroll was drained into the pockets of these advanced technique players.
So Semyon did play on an advanced technique team with SI. As far as I’m aware, he was never included in any of Johnny C’s teams after SI. He had his own team, and I believe that ‘Busting Vegas’ – the bare skimmings of it that are true – was an amalgamation of the exploits of SI and Semyon’s later team. How successful they were, well that's open to interpretation.

RJT.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Mickey Rosa - we won $700,000 and then lost back almost all of it.”-

Could be false-exculpatory statement, for IRS protection. May not be true. zg