Surrender / white flag?

[blackchipjim]

Is it my imagination or what with the dealers or casinos in Vegas. Whenever I surrendered my bet the dealer would call out surrender like I was betting black. I understand the black action call and the check play but surrender? I felt like putting my hands up or on top of my head when I did it just to be a smart ass, whats up with this play. blackchipjim

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by blackchipjim

Is it my imagination or what with the dealers or casinos in Vegas. Whenever I surrendered my bet the dealer would call out surrender like I was betting black. I understand the black action call and the check play but surrender? I felt like putting my hands up or on top of my head when I did it just to be a smart ass, whats up with this play. blackchipjim

We have standard signals for hit and stay and in Asia and some Indian Casinos, the signal for surrender is to draw a straight line in front of you with your finger. Problem is, according to Vegas types, it can be misunderstood by the eye as a wave off or stand signal (depth perception).

So with no standard hand signal, Vegas does one of two things:
1. The dealer calls out surrender to the pit so it is clear to all your intention to surrender.
2. Or a plastic lamer of some sort is imprinted with surrender. The dealer puts the lamer out in front of your bet and then takes half your bet.

It is all to prevent the situation where the dealer takes half your money and then you say, I signaled hit or stand and then they review it through the eye.

ihate17

[SecurityRisk]

There was one casino in Vegas, (can't remember which one) that made me use the hand signal for surrender. I've seen it used in other casinos, although they didn't require it.

[Automatic Monkey]

The signal I've seen used for surrender sometimes, as well as double down rescue in BJ variants that allow it, is to sweep ones fingers towards oneself near the chips, as if to sat "OK, give me that back."

[EasyRhino]

Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey

The signal I've seen used for surrender sometimes, as well as double down rescue in BJ variants that allow it, is to sweep ones fingers towards oneself near the chips, as if to sat "OK, give me that back."

That would look scarily like a hit.

The one I'm familiar with (socal indian casinos) is a sideways drags. However, even in San Diego county, some require the signal, while some require a verbal request. And some will take either.

So doing the signal (out of habit) usually got me some funny looks in Vegas (although one place also requested them). In fact, I got scolded by the pit so much at the Ventian that I assembled a while flag out of a cocktail napkin and toothpick from my bloody mary. Other people at the table started borrowing it from me when they wanted to surrender. One of my cleverer moments, I think.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by ihate17

So with no standard hand signal, Vegas does one of two things:
1. The dealer calls out surrender to the pit so it is clear to all your intention to surrender.
2. Or a plastic lamer of some sort is imprinted with surrender. The dealer puts the lamer out in front of your bet and then takes half your bet.

Anyway, it made me wonder, as an answer to a question you asked in an earlier post, maybe they don't offer surrender for the simple reason it cuts down on hands/hour.

[ihate17]

All of this stuff reminds me of a young dealer who recently immigrated to the U.S. and was dealing in Vegas. He came from one of those nations where surrendering might be the only way to survive sometimes. Ethiopia, Eretia or Sudan and when he called out surrender he actually clasped his arms behind his head and dipped his head slightly.

His problem, I think, was he was trying to entertain a little but he did not understand how the moods of players can change from when they were winning to when they are losing. Just like I say, we need to know how our opponent (the casino) thinks and works, new dealers have to be able to judge the mood of their players. So, a new player, who was getting killed at the tables his whole trip, sits down and a few hands later surrenders. The dealer goes through his smiling surrender act bow and all, and the player goes beserk, leaps towards the dealer, misses him and finds himself somewhere in the hotel waiting with security for metro most likely. The dealer, well some pit type takes him off the game and they are talking on the side.
My opinion: The pit was too late. Even though the table had been doing well, so his act was well received, the possibility that some guy who might have lost his life savings might sit down, means that the dealers act was out of line and might be found highly offensive to someone losing big, someone who was once a POW or someone else.

ihate17

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

That would look scarily like a hit.

The one I'm familiar with (socal indian casinos) is a sideways drags. However, even in San Diego county, some require the signal, while some require a verbal request. And some will take either.

So doing the signal (out of habit) usually got me some funny looks in Vegas (although one place also requested them). In fact, I got scolded by the pit so much at the Ventian that I assembled a while flag out of a cocktail napkin and toothpick from my bloody mary. Other people at the table started borrowing it from me when they wanted to surrender. One of my cleverer moments, I think.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

That would look scarily like a hit.

Then you'll get to see a free card once or twice.

-Sonny-

[moo321]

The fake surrender is a nice advantage play. Especially if you don't go so far as to actually make the surrender motion, because then you can double once the dealer pulls the card out if it makes you a 21.

[EmeraldCityBJ]

Originally Posted by moo321

The fake surrender is a nice advantage play. Especially if you don't go so far as to actually make the surrender motion, because then you can double once the dealer pulls the card out if it makes you a 21.

FWIW - Almost every casino in WA state expects the hand signal for surrender, and I have been dealt a card a couple times when I actually intended to surrender. You have to lower your hand to the table to "draw a line", and it can get interpreted as a hit if you have an impatient dealer.

Although this is an advantageous situation since if you improve your hand, you can let it go and if you bust, you explain that your intent was to surrender, I would not advocate purposefully trying to give the dealer mixed signals. Ambiguous hand signals are practically guaranteed to draw attention to you from the dealer, the pit, and very likely surveillance if the pattern continues. I also personally believe that purposefully giving unclear hand signals crosses the line between advantage play and cheating.