penetration change?

[blackchipjim]

I'm on a roll here so bear with me, I had a lot of questions on my trip and didn't write them down. While I was playing the tables I noticed that after a few shoes and some modest wins and good playing the pen changed. The dealer went from 80% to 75% to 65% and I didn't stay to see the rest. I also noticed that some tipping in certain places would keep the pen at a good level which added greatly to the overall. I kinda thought that the pen change was the most quietest signal from the dealer to move on. blackchipjim

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by blackchipjim

I'm on a roll here so bear with me, I had a lot of questions on my trip and didn't write them down. While I was playing the tables I noticed that after a few shoes and some modest wins and good playing the pen changed. The dealer went from 80% to 75% to 65% and I didn't stay to see the rest. I also noticed that some tipping in certain places would keep the pen at a good level which added greatly to the overall. I kinda thought that the pen change was the most quietest signal from the dealer to move on. blackchipjim

After beating up this Indian Casino on its 6 deck game, when the relief dealer came in pen went from 1 deck cut to 3 decks cut. That was obvious.

Sometimes when a dealer goes on break the pit will tell him to cut the pen, suspecting there is a counter on the table. There are also dealers who will do this on their own. There are also dealers who for some reason are very inconsistant in penetration and others who if they believe you are counting, want you to pay them for good pen.

Often I have looked at this as a benign backoff. They cut pen and I leave shortly. No backoff, no 86 and little left for them to remember you. I have found that returning on a different shift or after a period of a few months no problem after being half shoed.

If you look at it from the casino point of view, good pen makes them more money but if there is a counter on the table you take this approach. You cut the pen temporarily till the counter leaves and you never create a backoff scene where you can make some of your regular, non counting players uncomfortable.

ihate17

[21forme]

Once at a table, I was half-shoed. I kept quiet and the guy next to me blew his top over it. Messing with the flow and all that...

[blackchipjim]

Funny you would bring that up that happend somewhat last week on a 6d shoe game. I thought we had a good table of players in the morning when the relief dealer came in so did the ****. The dealer dealt out the remainder of the shoe and when he dealt cut the new one he cut it half. I pushed my chips in for color up the same time the guy in the middle asked what the #$%#$@#$ was that. The dealer was coloring me up but this guy was relentless in his beration of the dealer telling him if he wanted to play a dd game he"d sit down at one. Needless to say I was walking away and could still hear him on the dealer case. blackchipjim

[moo321]

It never ceases to amaze me how stupid casinos are. If they dealt their 6 deck games to 1 deck, they could have a counter spreading 1-15 the whole time at the table, and still make more money than if they cut 2 decks off. And if they decided to educate their staff, instead of instituting profit-killing countermeasures, they'd do even better.

[EmeraldCityBJ]

Sometimes, worsened pen is because they're trying to send you a message, but I believe that in most cases it just varies from one dealer to the next. Usually, it's pretty obvious when they want to send you a message. If I'm not sure, and I'm not noticing other forms of heat, I might suffer through one shoe (or preferably wong out) just to see what happens on the subsequent shoe. If the bad pen persists, I leave. If the pen gets reasonable again, I continue to play.

Another thing I've noticed is that a few casinos have it as a matter of policy to worsen penetration at their higher limit tables. I was once at a table with $5-100 limits with 5.0/6.0 pen. Another player requested $25-200, and I happily agreed since I also prefer the higher limit. However, as soon as they changed the limits, the same dealer cut the next shuffle 5.0/6.0, removed the cut card as if she forgot something, and then cut it 4.0/6.0. This dealer was one of their senior dealers who also sometimes works in the pit, further making be believe that it's house policy to worsen pen at higher limits.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by EmeraldCityBJ

Sometimes, worsened pen is because they're trying to send you a message, but I believe that in most cases it just varies from one dealer to the next. Usually, it's pretty obvious when they want to send you a message. If I'm not sure, and I'm not noticing other forms of heat, I might suffer through one shoe (or preferably wong out) just to see what happens on the subsequent shoe. If the bad pen persists, I leave. If the pen gets reasonable again, I continue to play.

Another thing I've noticed is that a few casinos have it as a matter of policy to worsen penetration at their higher limit tables. I was once at a table with $5-100 limits with 5.0/6.0 pen. Another player requested $25-200, and I happily agreed since I also prefer the higher limit. However, as soon as they changed the limits, the same dealer cut the next shuffle 5.0/6.0, removed the cut card as if she forgot something, and then cut it 4.0/6.0. This dealer was one of their senior dealers who also sometimes works in the pit, further making be believe that it's house policy to worsen pen at higher limits.

One dealer where I play told my friend that they are instructed to worsen pen when big money is playing at their table. Formerly, I thought it was only when they suspected a counter or on weekends where people are clamoring to get a seat on any table. Greed. That's all it is. But I like what Glovesetc says about greed. There are hogs and there are pigs. The hogs get fat, but the pigs get slaughtered. When the casino acts like a pig, I think they should get slaughtered, and I do wait my chance to get in on the bloodbath, i.e., when the casino lets its guard down.