2 beginner's questions

[Redrox]

1. From context, I am guessing a "ploppy" is any average player at the table. Where did the word come from?
2. I was just in LV with my brother, who plays all kinds of games. I played only BJ, and many tables had a 'machine' into which all the cards from a hand went. Is this a new twist (haven't played any games in years)? And if it's basically an automatic shuffler, doesn't it essentially defeat any effort at counting cards?
Thanks for the help. I'll probably be going back with my bro so I'm trying to get a little better educated. We had a great time.

[shadroch]

If the cards are put into the machine after every hand,or even after a couple of hands,it defeats attempts to count.

[EasyRhino]

"ploppy" is usually more derogatory. Often a VERY BAD, not just average, player. I think an early usage was popularized by gambling author Frank Scoblete.

As shadroch said, if the cards get dumped in after only a few hands, it's a continuous shuffler machine (CSM). And it countermeasures card counting.

But if the dealer goes through most of the deck, and then puts in all of the cards, it's an automatic shuffler machine (ASM), and you can think of it as a faster regular shuffle.

[EmeraldCityBJ]

Originally Posted by Redrox

1. From context, I am guessing a "ploppy" is any average player at the table. Where did the word come from?

I believe the term originally referred to a player who "plops" their ass down at your table and disrupts your game. They generally have no clue about how to correctly play the game themselves, and can be rather irritating to an experienced counter. They are most despised when they enter the game during a high count while the AP is betting big.

Originally Posted by Redrox

2. I was just in LV with my brother, who plays all kinds of games. I played only BJ, and many tables had a 'machine' into which all the cards from a hand went. Is this a new twist (haven't played any games in years)? And if it's basically an automatic shuffler, doesn't it essentially defeat any effort at counting cards?
Thanks for the help. I'll probably be going back with my bro so I'm trying to get a little better educated. We had a great time.

If it's a csm (Continuous Shuffle Machine), where cards are loaded into the machine every hand or two, they completely defeat card counting. If it's an asm (Automatic Shuffle Machine) which shuffles the entire pack at the end of the shoe rather than the traditional hand shuffle, it does not deter card counting.

[Redrox]

Thanks for the replies. Ploppies -- good descriptive name! And the machines I encountered were continuous shufflers, with cards going in after every hand. I didn't see them downtown on Fremont St. but I'm surprised they haven't just taken over everywhere. Maybe they're expensive.

[shadroch]

They are very expensive- for the players. As the house has a built-in edge on every hand,the more hands played,the faster you lose your money. CSMs mean the house never has to take a shuffle break so they get an extra ten or so hands an hour.

[ihate17]

Originally Posted by Redrox

Thanks for the replies. Ploppies -- good descriptive name! And the machines I encountered were continuous shufflers, with cards going in after every hand. I didn't see them downtown on Fremont St. but I'm surprised they haven't just taken over everywhere. Maybe they're expensive.

When the CSM first came out, the casinos envisioned them on every blackjack table. No more cardcounters and more hands per hour means more $$$$. So they bought them big time but many casinos were just not smart enough to take into consideration their players desires and superstitions and found themselves surprised when their biggest betting, non counting, long time losing customers balked at playing against these things. So the percentage of CSM's in use has gone down and you will find zero CSM's in high roller pits in Vegas and generally only find them on $25 tables during the busiest times in town when all limits go up. On the usual Vegas weekend all the CSM's are deligated to the lowest level tables in the house.

ihate17