Software for Progression Systems?

[justmaybe]

I do have a system that works. What I am looking for is a program where I can actually put in the different betting strategies with different chip goal settings for each of the players and therefore have the computer constantly run the games over and over, testing the several different betting systems. This way I can get a more accurate win/loss percentage record and therefore decide which betting strategy gives the best return. As you know we can only move so fast on a computer, but if we can get the computer to run the system for us it can do it much faster and non-stop.

Example: Have player "A" base bet $10, after one loss bet $15, two losses bet $20, three losses bet $25 and so forth up to as many bets and amounts as you want the computer to do. As soon as there is a win, go back to the base bet. If you have 5 losses in a row either quit the game and count it as a loss or continue playing with a new chip goal setting, starting once again at your base bet and just have a particular number set to earn back from your losses (You had 5 losses and your down $200, so now the computer would continue playing to merely win back $50, but if you have a second 5 losing streak then you would quit the game and count it as a loss). The computer would also need to be programmed to "hit, stand, split, double down, and surrender" based on the well known system used for all tables of different numbers of decks being used.

The computer would also keep a record for each player regarding win/loss percentage, number of hands played, number of games played, total money won to total money lost, and net profits after all games, as well as win streaks and losing streaks.

Can anyone help me?

[Sonny]

Everything you need to know:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...5&postcount=73

-Sonny-

[justmaybe]

Sonny,
I noticed your in LA. I'm in Long Beach. I do understand the math and statistics of the game and I have actually figured out a progression system that does work consistently. It has already proven itself to me over and over again. Like I said, if I could just find a program or a programmer which I could utilize this system with then I could get a more accurate win/loss percentage ratio while playing with a few adjustments in the system. Allowing a computer to play thousands of hands continuously would really speed up the process. Then I could actually tweak the system as perfect as possible. I'm serious, this system really does work. It is based on the statistics of winnings outweighing losses over time/numbers of games. In other words, it's not a system that you play twice and win twice. You play it 100 times and win 60 times to 40 losses and end up being 400 chips up, or even more. You do the math. The table you play on determines your profits. It not about money, its about chip count and then the value of the chip. You rotate casinos like a job and play anywhere from 30 to 120 games per month (your choice), approximately 2 to 4 hours per day. You determine your annual profits based on the number of games you're willing to play per year. If you are experienced well in this and would like to talk, let me know.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Sonny

Everything you need to know:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...5&postcount=73

-Sonny-

i believe sage blackjack simulator (no relation ... lol ) has some capability for testing progression systems.......

http://www.s-a-g-e.com/bjinfo.html

last time i tryed the link it wasn't working........ hopefully it's just down temporarily.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by justmaybe

I noticed your in LA. I'm in Long Beach.

Representin’ the LBC! Nice.

Originally Posted by justmaybe

Like I said, if I could just find a program or a programmer which I could utilize this system with then I could get a more accurate win/loss percentage ratio while playing with a few adjustments in the system.

You’ve got a forum full of programmers, math guys and pro players here. If you’re willing to discuss your system publicly I’m sure we can help you out. At the very least we could analyze your results so far. However, I really encourage you to read through the articles at the top of this forum. It might save you a lot of time and effort.

-Sonny-

[jomoats]

Originally Posted by justmaybe

I do have a system that works. What I am looking for is a program where I can actually put in the different betting strategies with different chip goal settings for each of the players and therefore have the computer constantly run the games over and over, testing the several different betting systems. This way I can get a more accurate win/loss percentage record and therefore decide which betting strategy gives the best return. As you know we can only move so fast on a computer, but if we can get the computer to run the system for us it can do it much faster and non-stop.

Example: Have player "A" base bet $10, after one loss bet $15, two losses bet $20, three losses bet $25 and so forth up to as many bets and amounts as you want the computer to do. As soon as there is a win, go back to the base bet. If you have 5 losses in a row either quit the game and count it as a loss or continue playing with a new chip goal setting, starting once again at your base bet and just have a particular number set to earn back from your losses (You had 5 losses and your down $200, so now the computer would continue playing to merely win back $50, but if you have a second 5 losing streak then you would quit the game and count it as a loss). The computer would also need to be programmed to "hit, stand, split, double down, and surrender" based on the well known system used for all tables of different numbers of decks being used.

The computer would also keep a record for each player regarding win/loss percentage, number of hands played, number of games played, total money won to total money lost, and net profits after all games, as well as win streaks and losing streaks.

Can anyone help me?

I've a project called (Timeless) on Guru.com to have a special simulator built that will accommodate most betting systems. Most progression players have the same problem of not being able to sim their systems. Finding out in a casino is too expensive.

I purchased Sage Blackjack for $50 and it can give you the info you need if you'll keep hand records and spend a great deal of time entering your bets and playing one event at a time. It had the potential of being a great product if it would accommodate a broader range of systems and input. Plays beautiful music, but that's not what a player is looking for. The developer was obviously very talented. It's a good product until something better comes along.

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by jomoats

I've a project called (Timeless) on Guru.com to have a special simulator built that will accommodate most betting systems.

I’m a member of Guru.com so I decided to check out that listing. It was pretty vague, and I’m still not really sure what it is from the description. Are these excerpts from the listing you’re talking about?

“To develop a specific simulator(software) that would be made available to approx. 100 million customers and numerous governments worldwide…There is some urgency on the social side for this product but not on it's broad customer appeal until the target customers are aware of it.”

It is just for a BJ simulator that handles progression systems? That’s incredibly simple to program. The part that really sours the deal is this:

“All development(documented costs) would be covered through raised monies, if successful…Only those who will work for uncertain future payments need apply.”

You’re going to have a hard time finding competent computer programmers willing to risk their paycheck on a progression system. Even then, the days of Eudemonic enterprises are long gone.

-Sonny-

[sagefr0g]

here is some of the help text for sage-blackjack that discusses progression betting with the simulator. note: the author doesn't recommend it....

snip ========>>>>

Progressive Bet Strategy Dialog Box

The Progressive Bet Strategy dialog box is displayed when the Progressive strategy Settings button on the Bet Strategy dialog box is selected. This dialog box provides the user with the means to define a betting
strategy based on the results of previous hands. This type of betting strategy attempts to take advantage of winning or losing streaks. As long as the player wins (or losses, as defined by the Advance levels upon
radio buttons), he advances up the levels and increases his bet size. Statistics based on the results the player obtained using this system can be view in the Progression Statistics dialog box.


When the Progressive Bet Definition button is selected, the Progressive Bet Definition dialog box is displayed. This dialog box defines how the levels on this dialog box are advanced.

The Level column represents different betting levels. Every time a player meets his goal before he encounters his stop definition he advances to the next level, which usually entails him to make larger bets. The last
check box selected represents the highest betting level. Once at this level, the player remains at this level until the stop definition is met.


The Bet Size column represents the starting bet size once this level is reached. As long as the number of wins are greater than or equal to the number of losses since the start of the level, this bet is used.

The Win Goal/Loss Goal column represents the number of wins (or losses) necessary since starting the level to advance to the next level. Wins and losses cancel each other so, for example, WIN, LOSS, WIN,
represents one win, not two. The win goal/loss goal has a slightly different meaning on the last defined level. When the last goal is met the betting level will reset to level 1. Therefore if you want to stay on the last level
until a stop loss is met you should enter "99" in the Win Goal/Loss Goal of the last defined level.


The Stop Loss/Stop Win column represents the number of losses or wins that trigger a stop. Once a stop is triggered, betting begins at the first level. The exact interpretation of this stop is defined by the Stop loss
definition radio buttons.

The Betting Sequence on Series of Losing/Winning Hands fields represents the player's bet size once he starts losing on a particular level (or winning if levels are advanced based on losses), before the stop has
been triggered. If levels are advanced based on wins and the player lost his first hand on a level and the stop loss was not triggered, the bet size for the next round of play would be defined by the 1 column. If he lost
his second hand, the bet size would be defined by the 2 column. If he won his third hand, column 1 would define his next bet once again. In other words, the column that represents the number of losses from the
highest bankroll obtained on this level will represent his next bet size, until his stop loss is triggered. If he is currently at his highest level, the bet size used will be the value specified in the Bet Size column. This
means that if the stop loss definition is From highest bankroll, the maximum number of losing sequences would be: num Stop Loss - 1. If the stop loss definition is From start of level, the maximum number of
losing sequences would be: num Stop Loss - 1 + num Win Goal - 1.


Theories
Many players adopt this type of betting system. Even players who play their hunches tend to increase their bet size when they are winning and decrease it when they are losing. There have been various books
published claiming such progressive betting schemes that are "guaranteed" to win. Many claim that their systems will win in just about any gambling game in the casino from blackjack to craps to roulette.

Be very skeptical of such systems. There doesn't exist any progressive betting systems that give the player any advantage in games where the outcomes are completely random (such as roulette and craps).
Blackjack is a little more complicated however. The results may not be completely random if the shuffles are not completely random. Therefore maybe once a winning streak starts it will tend to continue (which is
necessary for these systems to work). But be very careful about using such a system and please check the system out using Sage Blackjack's simulation mode (graphics turned off) with such a betting system
defined before risking your hard earned money at the blackjack tables.

end snippet.........

[jomoats]

[QUOTE=jomoats;63080][QUOTE=Sonny;62961]

I’m a member of Guru.com so I decided to check out that listing. It was pretty vague, and I’m still not really sure what it is from the description. Are these excerpts from the listing you’re talking about?

“To develop a specific simulator(software) that would be made available to approx. 100 million customers and numerous governments worldwide…There is some urgency on the social side for this product but not on it's broad customer appeal until the target customers are aware of it.”

It is just for a BJ simulator that handles progression systems? That’s incredibly simple to program. The part that really sours the deal is this:

It would be a simulator that handles progression betting systems, not specifically BJ. It would be odds specific rather than game specific.
Money values would be applied to the wins and losses spewed out by the simulator to show the system user the probable outcome. He would see in black and white what his or her chances of winning would be if they continue.
Being told something isn't going to work and actually seeing for themselves is important to players. They could also see how their systems would work aganist lower or even higher odds.

[

I]“All development(documented costs) would be covered through raised monies, if successful…Only those who will work for uncertain future payments need apply.”[/I]

About 10% of the worlds population gambles and it's probably higher. Buying a simulator is cheaper than trying their systems out in a casino with real money. Should be a good incentive to a competent programmer.

You’re going to have a hard time finding competent computer programmers willing to risk their paycheck on a progression system. Even then, the days of Eudemonic enterprises are long gone.

-Sonny-[/QUOTE

You maybe right, but rather than guess what programmers will do, I prefer to
ask. Some may see it as a chance to develop a worthwhile product that would appeal to a very large market and could end up being very well paid for their effort. We'll have to wait and see.
jomoats

[Sonny]

Originally Posted by jomoats

About 10% of the worlds population gambles and it's probably higher. Buying a simulator is cheaper than trying their systems out in a casino with real money. Should be a good incentive to a competent programmer.

In my opinion, the problem is that most people who develop progression systems won’t accept the results of a computer simulation. I mean, CVData and Sage software both support types of progression systems but I’ve never heard of anyone actually using them to test progression systems. In fact, I’ve often heard people say that they have “mathematical proof” of their system or that it has been "adequately tested" but it is never true. In fact, I’ve seen may progression developers get very upset when they see the final results. They say that it is wrong, or that you can’t trust computers, or that the software doesn’t accurately simulate “real world” conditions. Basically, they refuse to acknowledge the truth even when it is clear. System developers will not be interested in this software, and they may even be very upset about it when people actually start analyzing their systems with it.

But what about the players? Again, I don’t think that most progression players are concerned with the math of the game. They expect to lose a little money now and then but they probably won’t put any effort into buying software or running sims to see what the odds against them are. They just want to play BJ and have fun. If they really wanted to analyze the systems then it would be easy enough to learn the math and write a quick computer program to test it. In my opinion, if the demand were there then the software would already exist. So far nobody has publicly put forth the effort to analyze their progression system and I doubt most people would care to.

To be honest, I just don’t think the demand exists for this type of software. I may be wrong, but I just don’t see many progression players searching for mathematical validation and the system developers won’t accept it once they see it. Most people who use progression systems aren’t very interested in mathematical research. There are a few, but I don’t think there are enough to make the software marketable.

-Sonny-