"Smart" dealers and pit bosses

[techster]

Recently while playing at a local Indian casino a smart-aleck dealer starts talking about counting. Tells me he's an expert counter and can spot counters at his table. At first I'm worried, but I play dumb and ask him what this counting is all about and act impressed by his knowledge. I realize I've been making pretty good money for a couple of hours and he has not shuffled, changed the penetration, or any other counter moves so I figure he's just blowing smoke.

THEN, the pit boss hears the conversation, comes over to join, and I continue to act dumb asking questions like how does a player get an advantage by counting and finally how do you stop them. Pit boss tells me all the regular tricks, but she likes to engage the suspected player in conversation, since no one can count and talk at the same time. It takes all the self control I can muster to keep from replying, "I don't know, we've been talking for a good 15 minutes and right now the running count is -2 but the true count is only about -1" Walked away about an hour later up about 40 units with a fun story to tell about sharp casino employees.

[shadroch]

She got you to play in a negative count,so maybe she wasn't so dumb after all.

[Beefcake]

I realize this is an old thread, and I'm anything but an "old hand," but I was playing dd some weeks back with a buddy at a major strip property. Given the sad state of casino business these days, we were at a $25 table in a HL room playing DD, H17, DAS DA2.

As is my wont, I asked the three dealers, and two pit critters, and anyone else who would listen whether I should split my 2's against a 7 (opening hand of shoe). Everyone told me not to, and I was all set to ignore them, but the shift manager came by to chat with the otherwise unoccupied crew, and I got a "second opinion" from him, who told me that yes, you do split those 2's, which I did, winning a double and losing a single. Shortly thereafter, I heard him mock me to one of the PC's, "betting $50 bucks a hand, and he doesn't even know whether or not you split 2's."

Point being: I got advice from 6 people on a basic strategy "by the book" play, and all gave it wrong except one person. Never assume that these glorified burger flippers are "smart."

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by Beefcake

I realize this is an old thread, and I'm anything but an "old hand," but I was playing dd some weeks back with a buddy at a major strip property. Given the sad state of casino business these days, we were at a $25 table in a HL room playing DD, H17, DAS DA2.

As is my wont, I asked the three dealers, and two pit critters, and anyone else who would listen whether I should split my 2's against a 7 (opening hand of shoe). Everyone told me not to, and I was all set to ignore them, but the shift manager came by to chat with the otherwise unoccupied crew, and I got a "second opinion" from him, who told me that yes, you do split those 2's, which I did, winning a double and losing a single. Shortly thereafter, I heard him mock me to one of the PC's, "betting $50 bucks a hand, and he doesn't even know whether or not you split 2's."

Point being: I got advice from 6 people on a basic strategy "by the book" play, and all gave it wrong except one person. Never assume that these glorified burger flippers are "smart."

burger flippers", was an unneccesary comment, wouldn't you say?

These dealers know their job, usually, and are far from dumb, most. Why put down burger flippers as you EAT what they put in front of you? Doesn't say much about you..... does it.

There is no job that any of us should ever make fun of, they are all important and needed.

Dealers listen to the same old worn out cliche's, storys, jokes, vodoo, rudeness hour after hour, and do a good job of putting up with it, so they can continue to make a living.

Respect them, be friendly to them, and good things may just come your way

CP

[ccl]

dealers definately hear the same stories over and over, i heard one time for almost a week straight 5-6 hours a day about one guy turning like $25 into $1k or so, people were telling me how all the dealers delt him nice cards for about 2 days straight, no one seemed to realize that i dealt to the guy when he was about $400 ahead and in 20 mins got him to over the $1k mark, people all the time tell stories they hear about winners to the casino employees and not even realize who was around at the time.

ccl

[EasyRhino]

You know, a dealer that can count, I've decided, is on average going to be bad news. Not fatal, they may not narc on counters out of professional courtesy, but bad news. A supervisor who can count, however, is kryptonite.

Originally Posted by Beefcake

Shortly thereafter, I heard him mock me to one of the PC's, "betting $50 bucks a hand, and he doesn't even know whether or not you split 2's."

That's really surprising because 1) $50 a hand isn't that much by Strip standards, and 2) No one else in the room probably knew how to play the hand (2,2v7 is rarely known around these parts, too)

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

burger flippers", was an unneccesary comment, wouldn't you say?

These dealers know their job, usually, and are far from dumb, most. Why put down burger flippers as you EAT what they put in front of you? Doesn't say much about you..... does it.

There is no job that any of us should ever make fun of, they are all important and needed.

Dealers listen to the same old worn out cliche's, storys, jokes, vodoo, rudeness hour after hour, and do a good job of putting up with it, so they can continue to make a living.

Respect them, be friendly to them, and good things may just come your way

CP

well said Stealthy One.
say those were some superb dealers at the BJ Bash were'nt they.
sail those cards on top of your chips and send them spinning, lol.
and often knew just what down cards we were holding by inference didn't they.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

well said Stealthy One.
say those were some superb dealers at the BJ Bash were'nt they.
sail those cards on top of your chips and send them spinning, lol.
and often knew just what down cards we were holding by inference didn't they.

Yes indeed.....wonder how they knew that



CP

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

Yes indeed.....wonder how they knew that



CP

lol, i think you know.

but since i'm basically unschooled in the matter, i'll just guess and say,
A. said dealer knows perfect basic strategy, probably can count and knows indices as well.
B. said dealer is a quick enough study to know his players capabilities.
C. putting that knowledge all together with some pretty slick savvy, while dexterously dealing, adding card totals, making pay outs and shooting the bull, said dealer can infer from the players actions the nature of the players hand, be it pat or stiff by how many and what cards the player takes or doesn't take and how the player is betting.
D. there's probably more to it that i just can't think of at the moment.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

lol, i think you know.

but since i'm basically unschooled in the matter, i'll just guess and say,
A. said dealer knows perfect basic strategy, probably can count and knows indices as well.
B. said dealer is a quick enough study to know his players capabilities.
C. putting that knowledge all together with some pretty slick savvy, while dexterously dealing, adding card totals, making pay outs and shooting the bull, said dealer can infer from the players actions the nature of the players hand, be it pat or stiff by how many and what cards the player takes or doesn't take and how the player is betting.
D. there's probably more to it that i just can't think of at the moment.

All great and insightful answers from the 'Wise Won".

You know....I just guess it is a good idea to keep a good EYE on the dealer in a Pitch game....Donchathink

We should begin a conversation soon on the "BJ Bash for 09". I think many here are interested in attending the event.

Email me, call or PM me with your ideas. That holds for the other "Predators" also.

CP