Grosjean: Red 7 vs. Black 7?

[21forme]

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

[LeonShuffle]

If it actually exists, there's certainly got to be something more to it than just counting black instead of red. The only thing I could think to tweak Red 7 is to count every 7 as one half.

[eps6724]

Count the red 7's, count the black 7's-unless he has a couple of other things going on, the color doesn't matter outside of the roulette table. Rezney's KISS count is identical to the red7, except he chose to count black 2's. (Or red 2's, if you are feeling particularly Republican, I guess! )

Seriously, the whole point of counting either color of 7's or 2's instead of each one was to avoid the potential problem (for some people) of keeping half counts.

If he has a 'tweak' with black vs. red cards, I'd be interested. If it's only because black cards weigh more because of the chemical makeup of the black pigment vs. the red pigment, well...(Actually, there are some card magicians who say they CAN tell the difference in weight between the cards, but they also seem to be the ones with the amazing ability to bend spoons...)

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeonShuffle

If it actually exists, there's certainly got to be something more to it than just counting black instead of red. The only thing I could think to tweak Red 7 is to count every 7 as one half.

Yes, that count is called BRH-0 and it is an improvement to Red 7.

[zengrifter]

Originally Posted by 21forme

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

Rensy's KISS-3 beats them both with BLACK TWOS.
Fred tried the red twos first but found that the black twos were better wieghted. zg

[eps6724]

Originally Posted by zengrifter

Fred tried the red twos first but found that the black twos were better wieghted. zg

I understand that the red 2's tended to slide too far to the right...

[Royals]

Originally Posted by 21forme

In Beyond Counting, Grosjean says (p. 35):

If you are familiar with the Red 7 Count, you may wish to try Black 7, proposed by Bill Williams to answer the criticism that so much depends upon a red 7. He reports preliminary results suggesting that the edge from Black 7 is superior to Red 7, but not as strong as KO.

Is this a joke or am I missing something about Black vs. Red 7?

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

[21forme]

Originally Posted by Royals

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

Depends on exact conditions and who you read.

Grosjean uses KO, according to his book.

[eps6724]

Originally Posted by Royals

I thought that the Red 7 count tested out better than KO. No?

Check out table 9.28 (pg. 176) in Blackjack Attack for a good breakdown of a comparison of red7, KO and Hi-Lo under different situations.

[Brock Windsor]

Originally Posted by Automatic Monkey

Yes, that count is called BRH-0 and it is an improvement to Red 7.

BRH-0 is a level two system so tracks all 7's. 22222100-2-2. It is logical it would outperform Red-7. Still I don't believe the author is the same as mentioned above for "Black 7". If you true counted a similar system it would be a slight improvement I suspect.
BW