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Kasi · #1 January 11th, 2008, 01:59 AM

Can any of you smart guys out there design a perfect count system for a Spanish 21 8 deck game that pays 5-2 on insurance?

Something comparable to all non-10's as +1 and all 10's as -2 for a regular BJ game.

Just seems like it should be possible?

jack,jackson · #2 January 11th, 2008, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasi

Can any of you smart guys out there design a perfect count system for a Spanish 21 8 deck game that pays 5-2 on insurance?

Something comparable to all non-10's as +1 and all 10's as -2 for a regular BJ game.

Just seems like it should be possible?

Wait a couple days and I'll go over to my secret underground labaratory, mix up some special chemicals I've been working on, and Ill let you know what I come up with.

quipper · #3 January 11th, 2008, 03:31 AM

non ten = +2
tens = -5
starting at an RC of zero, take insurance when RC is greater than 96!

Kasi · #4 January 11th, 2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack,jackson

Wait a couple days and I'll go over to my secret underground labaratory, mix up some special chemicals I've been working on, and Ill let you know what I come up with.

I think you're off the hook now lol.

But maybe you could figure how often quipper's system above would actually get to a >=+96 RC and/or how how much reduction in house edge could be expected.

But that would take some really serious chemicals

Kasi · #5 January 11th, 2008, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quipper

non ten = +2
tens = -5
starting at an RC of zero, take insurance when RC is greater than 96!

Thanks quipper - we must be on the same page because I came up with non-ten=+1 and 10's = -2.5 and take insurance when RC > +48!

Think I like yours better - who likes fractions anyway lol.

I'll probably be saying to myself "dam - was the RC 65 or 75 last round?" lol.

Anyway it's not like I'll have much else to think about while playing so at least it'll give me something to do lol.

Thanks again for helping a stranger.

k_c · #6 January 12th, 2008, 02:55 PM

To me the initial running count is the key. If insurance paid 2.5 to 1 = 5 to 2, then when the ratio of tens to non-tens = 2/5 the insurance bet is even. In a single spanish 21 deck there ar 36 non-tens and 12 tens. Tagging the non-tens=-2 and tens=5 gives an initial running count = 36*(-2)+12*5=-72+60=-12. Initial running count (IRC)=numDecks*(-12). Whenever the current running count=0, the insurance bet EV=0 at 2.5 to 1 odds.

This can be done for any odds. If insurance paid 3 to 1, tag non-tens=-1 and tens=3. For normal deck and 2 to 1 insurance odds, tag non-tens=-1 and tens=2. In each case when running count > 0, insurance is +EV.

I like to tag negative cards with a negative sign and positive cards with a positive sign instead of the other way around. If done that way, current running count can always be figured by looking at the present shoe comp. Once initial running count is figured, current running count goes up by (neg tag) when a negative card is dealt and down by (pos tag) when a positive card is dealt. If done this way, any counting system can be true counted.

k_c

Kasi · #7 January 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_c

If done this way, any counting system can be true counted.k_c

Thanks k_c that's an interesting appoach.

Also I liked your overall approach making it clear you probably arrived at the same count I did in 15 seconds instead of like an hour of fussing around like I did lol.

Must be nice actually knowing what you're doing

Was it you or Josh that did all that composition stuff of what cards would make up a count? Anyway, if you have a way of determining how often such a count may actually happen in say a 6/8 shoe let me know if you could.

No big deal - I'll probably find out after I don't get it in the first hour or 2 lol.

And, if I do, I bet I lose the bet anyway lol.

I just thought I might give Double Attack Blackjack a try in AC in a few weeks - I like to try new games.

So, unless, you can come up with a some regular counting system for the game, (seems like it might be at least a little easier to do that than reg SP21 since there's none of that 678 payoffs etc), I'll probably just start at RC=0 and go up lol.

quipper · #8 January 14th, 2008, 11:36 AM

[QUOTE=k_c;65058]To me the initial running count is the key. If insurance paid 2.5 to 1 = 5 to 2, then when the ratio of tens to non-tens = 2/5 the insurance bet is even.

WHEN the the ratio of tens to non-tens = 2/7 the insurance bet is even.