Anyone every play Over/Under 13 variation?

[brandon_05mn]

hello all,
I play at Mystic Lake Casino in Minnesota, some of their tables have a Over/Under 13 side bet. If you haven't heard of it, it goes like this:
before your two cards are delt to you, if you wish to bet over/under 13 you put your bet in either the 'Over 13' or 'Under 13' space. Now once your cards are delt, total the two cards. Then you win or lose depending. Ace's count as 1's. if 13 is totalled, you lose.

So, math and probability says that the average total you will get delt with your two cards is 13! go figure. So this is obviously a losing proposition by means of randomly betting over or under 13.

BUT if you count cards this is to your advantage! if the count is high, bet over 13. Odds are that the total will come up over 13. I will now leave it open for discussion. Have anyone else seen/played this variation? any thoughts on actully playing it?? thanks!

[KenSmith]

You'll find this variation mentioned in several books on blackjack, and you're definitely right about it being beatable with counting. Although the initial house edge on these bets is quite high, the house edge is quite volatile as the deck is depleted. You'll sometimes have a large player edge on this bet.

Using the normal Hi-Lo count is OK, but this works best with a count specifically tailored to Over/Under. I can't recall which Wong book describes it, but he covers a count called Crush Count for this purpose.

[E-town-guy]

Wong I think suggests playing with a buddy, one uses the crush count for over/under the other uses hi-lo for regular counting. Though you need the count to go really hi or low to make money off the over under you can make quite a bit. If you need the crush count i can give it to you but just look at this stat. At a regular shoe game where you spread from $10-100 Wong says you can expect to make abuot $16/hr. Playing over/under using the crush count you can make $63/hr. If you use both crush and hi-lo you can make $66/hr. If you just use hi-lo for over under bet you can make $32hr. Those stats were assuming you could make $100 over/under bets. If you can do that at your casino without much heat it might be worth a road trip!

[recount]

About six years ago, U/O13 existed in Melbourne for a very short while. I wasn't able to play at the time but managed to find three counters willing to play for me. Their results were +21000, -3000, +2000 on BRs of 30000, 10000, 3000.

I did a simulation of the Under/Over component. I also did a simulation of the Crush count applied to the original bet only just to see what happens. Though the Under13 side bet wins the original bet loses on negative Crush counts resulting in only a tiny net win on the Unders. Although my players played both Overs and Unders I wonder whether it might have been better not to have bothered with the Unders but just changed tables or Wonged in on positives.

Wong says, "Both the over and under are horrible bets right after a shuffle." That word "horrible" is a good choice and it stays that way until you get to the betting count. So, whatever you do, be very careful not to put that side bets on too soon. You most definitely ought to play it while you have the chance.