Blackjack and Card Counting Forums - BlackjackInfo.com

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Old March 12th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Dabucci Dabucci is offline
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Post Auto Shuffle Popularity?

How popular are these auto shufflers becoming.. and how long do you think until all the casinos are using these for blackjack? Obviously they make it impossible to card count, so once they are used everywhere, will card counting die? Or will the shufflers die out, because I've heard they can sometimes stall the game.
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Old March 12th, 2008, 02:05 PM
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The auto shufflers (ASMs) donít affect card counting at all. Actually, they speed up the game which makes it more profitable for card counters. Youíre thinking of the CSMs, which have not been as popular as expected. They are pretty expensive, fairly unreliable, unpopular amongst high rollers, and, of course, still beatable. Although some of the smaller casinos are using them, I donít think the ones that get big action (or want to) are in a hurry to switch over.

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Old March 12th, 2008, 02:13 PM
Dabucci Dabucci is offline
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Question

so what are CSMs? And what is the difference between these and ASMs?


Thanks Sonny
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Old March 12th, 2008, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabucci View Post
How can this be true? If once the hand is finished, the cards are placed back into the shuffler and all the cards are shuffled around, it makes it impossible to keep a count, because the cards have been put back into the deck, and are just as likely to come out again
The auto shufflers (AMSs) donít work that way. The dealer deals out of a shoe just like he normally would, except instead of hand-shuffling the cards he puts them into a machine that shuffles them. There is usually an extra set of cards in the machine that is already shuffled that he will use while the original set is being shuffled.

The continuous shufflers (CSMs) are the machines that only deal a few hands before the dealer reinserts the cards. In that case the cards cannot really be counted unless the dealer doesnít reinsert the cards for a long time. I think that is the machine you are talking about.

-Sonny-
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Old March 12th, 2008, 08:33 PM
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I think the ASMs still have a negetive effect on the game in the sense that offerring better penetration has less effect on the number of hands dealt per hour so they are less inticed to offer more beatable games, that in my opinion seems to be the trend with the ASMs while better pen is found in hand shuffled games
  #6  
Old March 12th, 2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferretnparrot View Post
I think the ASMs still have a negetive effect on the game in the sense that offerring better penetration has less effect on the number of hands dealt per hour so they are less inticed to offer more beatable games, that in my opinion seems to be the trend with the ASMs while better pen is found in hand shuffled games
huh?

i have never ever seen a correlation to pen = f ( ASM ) vs. f (hand shuffle).
ASM's allow more hands to be dealt per hour... are there any more dealers/counters on here who could discuss house policy on pen? ihate17? cardcounter?
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Old March 12th, 2008, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosine View Post
huh?

i have never ever seen a correlation to pen = f ( ASM ) vs. f (hand shuffle).
ASM's allow more hands to be dealt per hour... are there any more dealers/counters on here who could discuss house policy on pen? ihate17? cardcounter?
I do not know of any policy at a casino that required reduced pen because they installed ASM's.
At the same time it can follow that since nearly no time is killed shuffling that you could offer reduced pen in an ASM game and still deal just about as many hands per hour. So they can be used to the detriment of counters.

ihate17
  #8  
Old March 13th, 2008, 07:28 AM
SystemsTrader SystemsTrader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferretnparrot View Post
I think the ASMs still have a negetive effect on the game in the sense that offerring better penetration has less effect on the number of hands dealt per hour so they are less inticed to offer more beatable games, that in my opinion seems to be the trend with the ASMs while better pen is found in hand shuffled games
I have to agree with you on this, I have noticed casinos with ASMs tend to have poor pen compared to hand shuffled games. This is by no means fact but it is something I've noticed as well.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 08:45 AM
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I also agree with the theory that an ASM could allow the casino to have worse penetration without as much of a "shuffle time penalty". However, I haven't seen a correlation in my limited personal experience.
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Old March 13th, 2008, 10:34 AM
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Default asm vs hand shuffle

I would care to differ on the oppinion they don't make a difference. I happen to follow slugs of cards that are tens and use it to my advantage. I have had better sucess with hand shuffle than asm overall. Most casinos that hand shuffle are not efficient in shuffling. Asm were in my oppinion to increase the amount of hands dealt per hour and to thwart shuffle trackers. I perfer to play hand shuffled decks even though I play less hands I can still exploit my advantage. blackchipjim
 

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