Myths in the Movie 21

[Guynoire]

Without giving too much away I thought I’d write a post addressing the myths or misconceptions about card counting in the movie 21. I identified 2 major ones.

1) You have to be a math genius to count cards.

This film gave a pretty good overview of the high low count, which is simple, but still seemed to stress the fact that counting is extremely difficult and only people with incredible mathematical abilities can do it. To be fare I think this myth was created for dramatic effect but would still like to address it. Personally I believe that anyone with a third grade education can learn to count cards, it’s just basic arithmetic, and that the actual act of counting is the easiest part of advantage gambling.

2) Facial recognition software will make counting impossible.

Now I’ve never had any personal experience with this type of thing but from my understanding facial recognition is something that human beings are incredibly good at and that it is extremely difficult for a computer to come anywhere near as close as a human. In order for a computer to recognize a face it has to compare features on a face to its target image. Besides a computer being fooled by things such as partial obscurities, a change of haircut, or wearing glasses, computers also have problems compensating for very basic things such as a change of camera angle. It’s these basic problems that have prevented anyone from creating software that would sort photos in a digital photo library by person in the photo. Sorting photos by the people in them would be a useful tool for digital photo albums and it is a trivial task for a human being to do, but as of yet I haven’t seen any software that can do it.

Does anyone have any knowledge or personal experience with facial recognition software? Is there some truth there or is it completely false? I’m starting to think that most of these myths like the one that card counting is illegal are created just to prevent people from counting cards.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Guynoire

Without giving too much away I thought I’d write a post addressing the myths or misconceptions about card counting in the movie 21. ....

one point they seemed to want to stress was that card counting was in no way gambling. just my opinion but i believe that's a myth.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

one point they seemed to want to stress was that card counting was in no way gambling. just my opinion but i believe that's a myth.

Sagefrog,

I believe that depends on how strong a game you play and your discipline in
playing BJ.

In my case there is no way I am "gambling". I have to agree with the movie in that area. When the BP started to lose discipline he lost and was at that time "Gambling".

Creeping Panther

[la_dee_daa]

you win every time from counting... they kinda gave that vibe.... everyone is now going to think that if you count cards you will win almost every hand.

at least in the move "the last casino" it was a understanding that a card counter could lose at points

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

Sagefrog,

I believe that depends on how strong a game you play and your discipline in
playing BJ.
In my case there is no way I am "gambling".

i'd love to know your secret you stealthy predatorial cold calculating fearless dark jungle beast. lol

Originally Posted by creeping panther

I have to agree with the movie in that area. When the BP started to lose discipline he lost and was at that time "Gambling".

Creeping Panther

yeah maybe in that particular scene i'd half agree. i mean yeah steaming is about the worst thing one can do and makes for nothing but pure gambling.
there were other scenes though where Mickey just flat out claims card counting isn't a gamble. pure mythology IMHO. i mean hell even NASA gets it wrong sometimes. the element of risk (uncertainty) is part and pacel of the universe as far as human cognition is able to ascertain. that includes card counting.
it's just in my mind that if a deliberate action involves a risk then it that action is to some degree a gamble.

[jimbiggs]

Originally Posted by creeping panther

Sagefrog,

I believe that depends on how strong a game you play and your discipline in
playing BJ.

In my case there is no way I am "gambling". I have to agree with the movie in that area. When the BP started to lose discipline he lost and was at that time "Gambling".

Creeping Panther

Card counting is gambling with a strategy. You could still lose all your money, just like anyone else.

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by jimbiggs

Card counting is gambling with a strategy. You could still lose all your money, just like anyone else.

That does depend on how much money you have

Actually a highly skilled and disciplined AP will win money, and never lose like most others.

I have played with "Machines" just as good in REAL life as Ben or The Proff in the movie 21. In fact some would say I was one of those machines.

As I have stated earlier, there is much more to AP play and *skillz set* than just counting.

I did like the movie, but I fear it could damage the game ever further than it has already been by careless posting and book writting

Creeping Panther

[Greg]

There was a point in the film when Kate Bosworth mentioned that splitting eights against a ten was a sucker play and Kevin Spacey agreed with her. Can someone explain??

[creeping panther]

Originally Posted by Greg

There was a point in the film when Kate Bosworth mentioned that splitting eights against a ten was a sucker play and Kevin Spacey agreed with her. Can someone explain??

As a general rule in a DAS game you would always split 8's, this *can* be affected by the count and a *few* other things. In the movie they talked about the 10 and Ace as up card in that instance.

In a no DAS game there are different strategys and if LS is offered even more tactics to use.

Pick your BJ game and and build your "solid strategy" around that perticular BJ games *option set* that you will be playing or specializing in.

Creeping Panther

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by jimbiggs

Card counting is gambling with a strategy. You could still lose all your money, just like anyone else.

thank you jbigg. that's the point i was trying to make. and i'd just add that maybe the card counter does perhaps have opportunities for an edge for which he enjoys an advantage cognition-wise over others. and it's a two edged sword for which he can wield that sword against the gamble with both less risk and a higher probability of success if he plays his cards right lol.
it's not all that uncommon to see obviously inexperienced AP wannabe's literally shoveling money into the casino's couferrs thinking that they should be walking away winner since after all card counting isn't gambling. you see them walking away with empty pockets and dejected puzzled looks on their faces as if they had just been cheated out of a sure thing. stories of real genuine AP's abound for which they have suffered as much as up to a year of losing money out of positive EV play.
point being to believe the myth that card counting isn't gambling blinds one to one of the advantages that card counting has. that being the advantage of greater cognition with respect to the truth of the endeavor and the possible attainment of the fruits of that endeavor and the possibility of ruin.
the issue of gambling is the issue that is relegated to the subject of risk of ruin and the statistics of expected value in card counting books. what is glossed over is and quickly handed off to you and then forgotten is the part that you play with regard to those decisions. but really it is of paramount importance the question of how you handle the gamble. that gamble is very real and every fiber in our body and mind tells us how real it is every time we walk into a casino and sit our scared little butts on that stool.