Blackjack machine question

[techster]

A local Indian casino just installed one of those blackjack machines with the life size video of a dealer on a screen and players sitting at a table playing blackjack with electronically dealt cards (I've seen them in Vegas and Reno, but its the first time I've seen one at an Indian casino). The instructions on the machine say that it is a six-deck machine and that 2/3 of the shoe is played before shuffling. It has other than the so-so penetration claimed, it plays stand on S17 and with a $2 minimum bet and no live dealers or pit bosses around to provide heat seams like a great game to play.

Here is the problem. I watched for about an hour the other day and could not figure out when the shoe was reshuffled. When I noticed that the "dealer" changed every so often, I thought it must be then. Then when I noticed the dealer was changing every 250 cards or so, it was even better--they were playing close to 5 decks before shuffling! Alas, the next time around I tracked aces and when the 7th ace of hearts appeared I knew I was back at square one.

Does anyone know these machines? How do we know when the shuffle occurs?

[21forme]

You don't know when the shuffle occurs. That's why these machines aren't playable.

[sagefr0g]

sorry i don't know how to tell when they shuffle either.......
question on these machines for the experts.
which is worse these machines or csm ?

[geneticfreak]

These are not beatable since you don't know when the "shuffle" occurs. They are really just oversized slot machines that give the illusion of a nice social game of blackjack. They are even worse in PA since the regulations here do not allow one player's actions to effect another player's chances, meaning each player has their own personal 6 deck shoe to work from.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by geneticfreak

These are not beatable since you don't know when the "shuffle" occurs. They are really just oversized slot machines that give the illusion of a nice social game of blackjack. They are even worse in PA since the regulations here do not allow one player's actions to effect another player's chances, meaning each player has their own personal 6 deck shoe to work from.

You seen any of these in PA lately?

I'd say they are a nice social game of BJ, low min, decent rules, not even close to a slot machine or video BJ.

Not beatable but very cheap entertainment.

And at least, since everyone is playing heads up against the dealer in effect, nobody can say you "stole" their card lol.

[sagefr0g]

Originally Posted by Kasi

You seen any of these in PA lately?

I'd say they are a nice social game of BJ, low min, decent rules, not even close to a slot machine or video BJ.

Not beatable but very cheap entertainment.

And at least, since everyone is playing heads up against the dealer in effect, nobody can say you "stole" their card lol.

not beatable even by the Kasi voodoo fuzzy bet?
thanx for the link to qfit's site on the double down stuff....

[Kasi]

[QUOTE=sagefr0g;74156]not beatable even by the Kasi voodoo fuzzy bet? QUOTE]

Didn't want to bring that up lol.

Just beatable with a much higher probability of success compared to flat-betting for the next 500 hours anyway.

Wish I could find one to pass my time away lol. Last I heard they got removed in PA.

Probably less beatable than a CSM since the cards would be electronically shuffled and a CSM has a lower HA for a BS player than a cut-card ASM game. I think that's what the Wiz says.

[sagefr0g]

[QUOTE=Kasi;74159][QUOTE=sagefr0g;74156]not beatable even by the Kasi voodoo fuzzy bet? QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Didn't want to bring that up lol.

your not gonna get off that easy. i'll get zengrifter after you. you know he's already got you set up playing blackjack extreme against david pom don't you? lol http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...33&postcount=3

Originally Posted by Kasi

Just beatable with a much higher probability of success compared to flat-betting for the next 500 hours anyway.

that's good enough. now let's get that method nailed down. i been trying to learn it : http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...3&postcount=13
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/show...9&postcount=15

Originally Posted by Kasi

Wish I could find one to pass my time away lol. Last I heard they got removed in PA.

i got one claims it shuffles after 2/3 of six decks dealt. just can't tell when it shuffles. decent rules but it's h17 i think, i forget....

Originally Posted by Kasi

Probably less beatable than a CSM since the cards would be electronically shuffled and a CSM has a lower HA for a BS player than a cut-card ASM game. I think that's what the Wiz says.

right so it probably would have a higher HA than a csm. maybe much greater but perhaps when there was an advantage it could be significant. yes?
playing one on one with it 208 cards dealt circa 5.4 cards/round it's what you got about 38 rounds to exploit? 38 rounds at $3 per round (not counting splits, doubles) $114 might go down the tubes.
couldn't watch those rounds and get a good idea when the shuffle occured by the asymetry of the hi/lo's comming out? i dunno maybe like a phase change sort of blip on the screen. lol .
but anyway circa 38 rounds between shuffles and no way to exploit that just because you don't know when it shuffles?
sorry to hammer away like this. but i wanna play the darn thing cause the babe dealing is hot and i need an excuse.
i'll bet your online play you had to play a bunch of differant games that offered varying shuflle points and the like.
don't worry about it Kasi. come up with what ever you want or just ignore this if you want.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

i'll bet your online play you had to play a bunch of differant games that offered varying shuflle points and the like.

They were almost exclusively dealt from a fresh deck(s) and re-shuffled after each hand.

A few were actually infinite deck where each card dealt was immediately replaced making it a constant 52 card deck which is an infinite deck although they would tell you it was a single deck game. And then you'd wonder how come I got 2 Ace of Spades in the same hand? lol At least when I did I finally figured out what they were doing lol.

Some would not tell you how many decks they used. I don't think they actually knew.

Intercasino would actually shuffle after a few rounds in the multi-deck version. I mostly played the single deck though despite a $25 min - I couldn't resist the incredible rules.

But you bring up a good point that I failed to mention, some of these games had very low HA's. Some as low as 0.1%. With comp points almost dead-even. Blackjack Switch even less than that, and a +EV game with comp points. I didn't count those results since they were in a +EV environment. These games don't exist in real life for obvious reasons. But, obviously. so much easier to come out ahead with voodoo lol.

OMG - can you imagine buying a $1000/day for seven days and then receive a $1000 bonus? At 3 different casinos? I think I made $30K that month lol. I wasn't counting but they "86'd" me anyway lol.

I can't go on anymore now - just thinking about it makes me cry and and

[geneticfreak]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Wish I could find one to pass my time away lol. Last I heard they got removed in PA.

They are still around. On Saturday, there was a grand total of 3 at the Hollywood Casino with $10, $15 and $25 minimums. Not exactly low limit entertainment, but you could not get a seat on any of them.