back counting 6-8 deck shoes

[helix]

Whats the average amount of shoes that you have found, that you need to backcount before you encounter a count high enough to wong into the shoe? The reason i am asking is because i just spent 6 hrs at the local casino trying to find a count high enough to make it worth my while to wong in on, and well, basically i came close a few times but thats about it.

They have double deck available but you cant jump in and play during the middle of the shoe.

[la_dee_daa]

Originally Posted by helix

Whats the average amount of shoes that you have found, that you need to backcount before you encounter a count high enough to wong into the shoe? The reason i am asking is because i just spent 6 hrs at the local casino trying to find a count high enough to make it worth my while to wong in on, and well, basically i came close a few times but thats about it.

They have double deck available but you cant jump in and play during the middle of the shoe.

25% of the time you will see positive counts so yea about 25% of the shoes should be decent to i guess..

just try counting the positive shoes next time, don't waste your time backcounting negative ones

[Sonny]

First of all, congratulations! You backcounted for 6 hours without making a single bad bet. Most people don’t have the patience for that. Although you may feel bad that you didn’t get to play at all, you should feel good that you didn’t waste your money on any bad bets. In a way, you did win money by not losing it!

Usually about 1-in-5 shoes turns positive. In a crowded casino it can take a long time to get through a shoe because the play is sooooo sloooooow, but if you are backcounting you can speed things up a little by abandoning the hopelessly negative shoes from the beginning. If the casino doesn’t have many tables then you might end up waiting around for a fresh shoe, which can slow things down even more. I've never seen a 6-hour stretch with no good counts but it's not impossible.

-Sonny-

[EasyRhino]

Most I've had to wait is a couple hours, but I'll agree that it can be painfully boring. Plus, sometimes I feel like a creepy old man skulking around the casino. Actually, that part is pretty fun.

If you're two or three decks in and the count is still significantly negative, it's usually worthwhile to find another table if one is just about starting off the top.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by helix

Whats the average amount of shoes that you have found, that you need to backcount before you encounter a count high enough to wong into the shoe? The reason i am asking is because i just spent 6 hrs at the local casino trying to find a count high enough to make it worth my while to wong in on, and well, basically i came close a few times but thats about it.

They have double deck available but you cant jump in and play during the middle of the shoe.

Here's something that might help you: you don't need to watch shoes you have only seen from the beginning to backcount. If you are somewhere near the beginning of the shoe and you are walking by and see a raft of low cards on the table, you can work on that shoe too. If you are using a running count system like KO (in running count mode) you have to change absolutely nothing, you just start counting, using the same IRC you would use at the beginning of a new shoe. If you are using a balanced system, you have to remember how many decks you missed at the beginning and pretend they are behind the cut card and not in the discards when you do your true count conversion. It adds a layer of complexity, but you'll see more good counts and make more money that way.

[Automatic Monkey]

Originally Posted by EasyRhino

Most I've had to wait is a couple hours, but I'll agree that it can be painfully boring. Plus, sometimes I feel like a creepy old man skulking around the casino. Actually, that part is pretty fun...

Yeah tell me about it! That's why I like backcounting in Atlantic City, where it is perfectly acceptable to be a creepy old man, or a creepy anything.

[bluewhale]

Originally Posted by helix

Whats the average amount of shoes that you have found, that you need to backcount before you encounter a count high enough to wong into the shoe? The reason i am asking is because i just spent 6 hrs at the local casino trying to find a count high enough to make it worth my while to wong in on, and well, basically i came close a few times but thats about it.

They have double deck available but you cant jump in and play during the middle of the shoe.

if theres one thing that i know its backcounting. that said sonny is still better versed on the subect

anywho. my guess is that you consider a "good" count to be TC of 4-5 (hi/low). if my guess is right that is waaaay more than you need. I jump in when the count hits 2... you have the edge. take advantage of it.

things when backcounting...
if you're in a place with a lot of fresh shoes and open spots then if the count goes to -3 on the first hand i just skip to the next shoe if its there. why bother with a -3 shoe when you have a 0 shoe?

following that.. if theres very limited shoes then keep counting the one you're doing and look for another opening. even if the one you're doing has tanked a lot.

basically the idea is to be actually counting cards at ALL times. from the moment i step onto that floor i am counting. its gotten to the point that if i walk by a three card poker table i'll have automatically counted it.